Gaza-Israel Conflict | 2023-2024

Meengla said:
One reason the GCC Arabs are not in a rush to support Palestinians is their economies are dependent upon being on America's side.
Click to expand...

National interests over religious sentiments or the other way around? The key difference between the Arabs and Pakistanis over this sensitive issue.
 
Meengla said:
One reason the GCC Arabs are not in a rush to support Palestinians is their economies are dependent upon being on America's side. Their 'assets' like US Bonds, real estate, Stock investments, yachts, chateaus, foreign exchange reserves... everything in the West could be confiscated within days. Look at what's happening to the $300 BBBBillion worth of Russian Assets! Imagine your own assets being used to finance a war against you!! The West acts illegally as a pack of wolves: Group of 7! The same fate awaits China if China gets into a vulnerable spot.
Imagine what kind of trade/commercial concessions can be obtained using such blackmails? Israel is a violent blackmail over the Middle Eastern countries while the financial tools are other forms of the blackmail.

www.nytimes.com

U.S. and Europe Eye Russian Assets to Aid Ukraine as Funding Dries Up

Despite legal reservations, policymakers are weighing the consequences of using $300 billion in Russian assets to help Kyiv’s war effort.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

The Biden administration is quietly signaling new support for seizing more than $300 billion in Russian central bank assets stashed in Western nations, and has begun urgent discussions with allies about using the funds to aid Ukraine’s war effort at a moment when financial support is waning, according to senior American and European officials.
...

But the administration, in coordination with the Group of 7 industrial nations, has begun taking another look at whether it can use its existing authorities or if it should seek congressional action to use the funds. Support for such legislation has been building in Congress, giving the Biden administration optimism that it could be granted the necessary authority.

The talks among finance ministers, central bankers, diplomats and lawyers have intensified in recent weeks, officials said, with the Biden administration pressing Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Canada and Japan to come up with a strategy by Feb. 24, the second anniversary of the invasion.
Click to expand...

I sincerely believe that the GCC Arabs have no empathy towards the Palestinians. You are absolutely correct that Arabs possess a lot of assets in Western countries. More than that, many GCC Arab nations sell their oil and gas to Western nations. Would GCC oil and gas revenue be impacted if they took some sort of action? Absolutely. Should the GCC Arab nations take action? It would be the moral thing to do. Not doing anything makes the Arabs look weak and immoral. To give an example, it is like a bully hitting your brother everyday at school and you looking the other way.
 
Dalit said:
It most definitely is, but they won't get any praise for it.



The United States is doing something. It is forming an obstacle to a permanent cease-fire.
Click to expand...
They are an obstacle to peace in the middle east unfortunately. Dare I say it, the Chinese IMO are better mediators, however currently they are not assertive on the international stage.
 
VCheng said:
National interests over religious sentiments or the other way around? The key difference between the Arabs and Pakistanis over this sensitive issue.
Click to expand...
Well, you now, people in the IndoPak Subcontinent are very emotional and religious. But I also think Pakistan doesn't gain much by recognizing Israel and Pakistan loses its moral standing by recognizing Israel when there injustice against the Palestinians. Some 'Causes' are worth supporting even if they appear to be losing 'Causes': The Muslims of the Subcontinent supported the dying Ottoman Empire / Turkey and for that there remains a strong bond between the two nations even after a century. However, in case of the GCC Arab countries, their economic interests, at least short term, are not to $iss off Washington.
Dalit said:
Would GCC oil and gas revenue be impacted if they took some sort of action? Absolutely. Should the GCC Arab nations take action? It would be the moral thing to do. Not doing anything makes the Arabs look weak and immoral. To give an example, it is like a bully hitting your brother everyday at school and you looking the other way.
Click to expand...
Gazans and Hezbollah are also 'Arabs'. GCC Arabs, per my understanding, are indeed looking for another major power to ally with but they can't risk their investments in the West until that happens. There is absolutely no respect and love between the ruling class of GCC and the West--it is business and protecting assets. But then America's foreign policy being hijacked by the Israel Lobby is absolutely going to rush the rupture between the GCC and the West--that point is underscored by the mostly-anonymous 400 US Officials' letter to the Biden administration in last few weeks.
 
Meengla said:
Well, you now, people in the IndoPak Subcontinent are very emotional and religious. But I also think Pakistan doesn't gain much by recognizing Israel and Pakistan loses its moral standing by recognizing Israel when there injustice against the Palestinians. Some 'Causes' are worth supporting even if they appear to be losing 'Causes': The Muslims of the Subcontinent supported the dying Ottoman Empire / Turkey and for that there remains a strong bond between the two nations even after a century. However, in case of the GCC Arab countries, their economic interests, at least short term, are not to $iss off Washington.

Gazans and Hezbollah are also 'Arabs'. GCC Arabs, per my understanding, are indeed looking for another major power to ally with but they can't risk their investments in the West until that happens. There is absolutely no respect and love between the ruling class of GCC and the West--it is business and protecting assets. But then America's foreign policy being hijacked by the Israel Lobby is absolutely going to rush the rupture between the GCC and the West--that point is underscored by the mostly-anonymous 400 US Officials' letter to the Biden administration in last few weeks.
Click to expand...

Of course every country decides for itself according to their own priorities.
 
Meengla said:
Correct.
And the blueprint to defeat Israel was already laid out in 2006 by Hezbollah: The northern 3rd of Israel was paralyzed for a long time then--too much cost to Israel's economy.
Click to expand...
I have to add some caveats to this. Hezbollah repelled a limited ground invasion by Israel into mostly the Lebanese countryside and villages of the south because Israel was not prepared for the battle and didn't commit many troops (10,000 initially, rising to 30,000 by the final days). By contrast, Israel has sent 40,000 soldiers into the comparatively tiny Gaza Strip, with close to half a million soldiers mobilised across both fronts.

Was repelling a limited Israeli invasion of south Lebanon a victory for Hezbollah? Yes. But does it set the blueprint for how to defeat Israel? No.
Meengla said:
It is not that hard to defeat Israel. I have said it many times that Israel's narrow geography, pampered dual citizenships, and extreme aversion to taking casualties make Israel very vulnerable to asymmetrical warfare.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately it is much harder than you assume to defeat any country. Israel is effectively a large military base, everyone has military training and is armed (to a very high standard). And of course they have unlimited funding and arms from their friends in Europe and the USA. Those same friends have bribed and divided Israel's neighbours into becoming effective allies of Israel, limiting the threat vectors to Israel.
 
Persian Gulf said:
I have to add some caveats to this. Hezbollah repelled a limited ground invasion by Israel into mostly the Lebanese countryside and villages of the south because Israel was not prepared for the battle and didn't commit many troops (10,000 initially, rising to 30,000 by the final days). By contrast, Israel has sent 40,000 soldiers into the comparatively tiny Gaza Strip, with close to half a million soldiers mobilised across both fronts.

Was repelling a limited Israeli invasion of south Lebanon a victory for Hezbollah? Yes. But does it set the blueprint for how to defeat Israel? No.

Unfortunately it is much harder than you assume to defeat any country. Israel is effectively a large military base, everyone has military training and is armed (to a very high standard). And of course they have unlimited funding and arms from their friends in Europe and the USA. Those same friends have bribed and divided Israel's neighbours into becoming effective allies of Israel, limiting the threat vectors to Israel.
Click to expand...

I think I am probably of a minority view here when I say that Gazans could totally lose without external support: There is only so much a tiny, besieged, impoverished population can do against a highly militarized country backed by the lone Superpower and the Superpower's rich and powerful allies.
What I obviously meant was sustained militia attacks from multiple sides of Israel. And, yes, Hezbollah did humiliate Israel 2006 to the point that till now, despite all the provocations by Hezbollah in last 2.5 months, Israel has not attacked the Beirut Airport, which used to be Israel's one of the first targets. Why so? Because Israelis know the enhanced capabilities of Hezbollah, especially while Israel is still unable to subdue Gaza.
So, to repeat, the blueprint to defeat Israel was laid out by Hezbollah in 2006 but this time there will be more than just the northern front Israelis would have to deal with. Israel cannot sustain such asymmetrical war for long. Can you believe Israeli asylum seekers are already going to Portugal? They are probably the ones who don't have the dual nationalities or credentials to just go to London or NYC but many others can leave to go wherever.

As for Egypt and Jordan--they are not Israel's allies per se--more like bribed countries whose leadership has to 'balance' the internal pressure with external inducements but that dance can't last forever.
 
VCheng said:
And yet not a peep out of them, at least nothing meaningful. If the Arabs don't speak up for their fellow Arabs, non-Arabs and others in far off lands cannot be expected to do much either.
Click to expand...

A fallacy!

Slicing the salami of self interest... from larger to a smaller and finally personal... A self-centered world view.
Why the poor in Flint suffer leaded water?
Will the mayor or governor expose himself or near and dear to the same levels of toxicity, knowing it's ramifications?

Borders fallacy, ethnic or tribal fallacies work the same top down paradigm... until it hits home.
Abandoned and forsaken in the wake of global power struggle, break up of empires... those carried on the shoulders or trudged along form the rules based order.

Pakistan can bomb its own, considering a certain bedrock community forming core of its establishment. So, no one bats an eyelid for the other...

The proponents of tiered support are also patently wrong. When the region owes it's borders Sykes-Picot and Israel to Balfour declaration. The bombs and platforms it uses are supplied and supported by the U.S a good 8,000 miles out... why the neighboring Arabs expose themselves to the master who pulls Israeli string?
Perhaps same reflects Pakistani self preservation but also reflects why it may never ascend as that perch is exclusive for those who dare!

Gaza and Palestine is a manufactured blind spot... where many conveniences converged.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 14 (members: 1, guests: 13)

Pakistan Defence Latest

Country Watch Latest

Latest Posts

Share this page

Back
Top