India Has Lost Air Superiority to Pakistan, No Jets Left to Fight

[Master Chief]

The evidence must be all over the internet right? Oh hey we all saw that Arma 3 footage you published had a good laugh at the "evidences". What is amiss this time is capture of a female pilot.

IAF did what they were asked to do so why fire him. " Bolnari Nur Khan base mein aage khire," you guys are great video graphers, gotta give you that. Meanwhile we had some rando air def interception and college kids howling at it. I guess his performance review went quite well since.

Genuinely not sure what you want in terms of "evidence" that wasnt posted on this thread and on others already. The videos and pictures taken by your own citizens require your urgent and meticulous review before anything else. Others are convinced, even non-Pakistanis. Feel free to cite Arma 3 or conspiracies about female pilots all you wish but none of that obviates the hard truths of the matter. These periodic lapses of memory of yours are becoming a drain on those you converse with.

Post in thread 'Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion'

Tuesday at 10:28 PM

Posting all non Pakistani sources confirming multiple iaf aircraft getting shot down by paf

Reuters



Indian express


France 24





Bloomberg



Trt global

• Areesh

• 
• 

As for your IAF chief, please do persist with him. No complaints here.

 

[Master Chief]

Perhaps you misread. Weren't you talking about videos or clips of wild life and trains?

I cited those threads as examples of the erroneous depiction therein of the sovereignty status of Kashmir, not because I am concerned over Indian wildlife and trains. Man, this isn't like you at all. Are you off your meds??

 

[samsite84]

I am ok with you not wanting war. We don't either, no sane person should ever ask/want that. It is quite easy for us to sit here talk tough while someone else has to make the ultimate sacrifice.

That aside, I would dispute the assertion that India will "shove back so hard that there is no dispute of the outcomes". Aside from East Pakistan with a beleaguered garrison, when has India in the past 70+ years been able to "absolutely" dominate Pakistan? Never, because the capabilities on the two sides have been enhanced relative to each other.

Second, before India crosses any significant red lines, we have our doctrine established to pre-empt such outcomes and specially those that would lead to a significant destruction of military forces and loss of territory. These have been talked about by those much closer to Pakistan's security planning so I would be redundant trying to spell them out.

My sincere, and also unfortunately unimportant, hope is that both India and Pakistan realize the folly of war. Looking at what has gone on in the recent past in Russia-Ukraine and also the ME, one can only imagine the mass-scale destruction and utter carnage a full-scale war will bring. Perhaps the respective governments will realize that as loathed to the idea of talking they may be, it is still a 1000x better than trying to settle things on the battlefield.

Thank you for the sane reply and I hope sanity prevails on both sides.

I agree with your verdict on Indian not being able to absolutely dominate Pakistan is right but differ on the causes. India for the longest time has had measured response according to me. One of the biggest example in recent history is Kargil where Indian soilders didn't cross the LOC, the Navy wasn't utilized even though it would have saved a lot of resources. Some proponents might say it was to stop escalation/intervention from a third party and yes that might be partly right but a similar intervention was avoided/neglected in case of Bangladesh.

People here try to propogate current dispensation as a monster or something but the ground reality is very different. Modi landed in Pakistan impromptu, believed that PAthankot investigation will lead somewhere. When diplomacy failed (as it has for the longest time), the GoI shifted to a "limited" war.

On red lines:
We have heard a lot about red-lines e.g., Indus water, cross-border strikes by crossing IB etc. - both these red-lines have been crossed and now new ones established. Indian perspective: as long as we don't occupy Pakistan/take any territory, we have a fair right to protect our people and our interests esp. if we believe the threat is emanating from Pakistan's territory with or without the tacit approval of state. Right, wrong or indifferent - that is how an average Indian thinks...

Big picture:
This has been discussed to death on this forum, but I don't see a lasting peace until the control of Pakistan establishment (and Army) is loosened on the state. As an India, I see that the only purpose of Pakistan Army is to enrich itself at the cost of common man and it will be anything to be in prime position to do so. Fostering animosity in India is a direct result of it. Its fair to assume that Indian politicians will also use Pakistan as a shield or to distract from their performance but its hard to find any instance where a government was able to survive because they painted Pakistan bad. Even as powerful a leader as Indira Gandhi was ousted because of her dictatorial ways. Her victory against Pakistan had no bearing on the verdict.

 

[Defender]

Do you have any idea what type of joker India pm modi has become in sco meeting he said no terrorist will be allowed every one start stretching their heads during British empire they call USA freedom fighters terrorist then when USA becomes superpower he called his enemy terrorist Pakistan has his own terrorist Russia called Ukraine terrorist so which terrorist was modi was talking about. President trump was watching the tv and saw that so thought in his mind what if superpower India start going in chronological order. Usa will be first on his list so he order his forces to bomb India vessel till it slink and when India protest he said shut up you brat and go to your room

 

[RAJPUT]

And yet...

India supplied many many foreign countries with the COVID vaccine, wonder where Pakistan was. I wouldn't talk much about batti and all just that India has been giving batti non-stop since 1947

Pakistan was busy supplying oxygen tanks to the nangi awam of Bharat that was left to rot by the RSS ridden Indian Government.

Forget about batti, we have given our whole 'banh' up your dirty asses since the partition.

How do you guys not commit suicide when a 9 times smaller country keeps handing your asses to you in every skirmish despite being down the drain in every economic metric and infested with militias being funded by your RSS chaddi banyan gang of fagg***?

 

[Defender]

Why even India call 1971 as Pakistan and India war India has crooked history books in Pakistan history books and western history books it called civil war between west and east Pakistan which lasted for Nearly 9 months and maintain logistic to east Pakistan was impossible due to 3000 miles
Even with out India involved east Pakistan was lost

• The 3,000-mile supply line around India was bleeding the Pakistani treasury dry.
  
  
  
• The local population was entirely hostile, and the rural areas were already under the effective control of the Bengali resistance.
• It was only a matter of time before East Pakistan successfully broke away on its own due to sheer exhaustion on the part of the West Pakistani garrison.

There is what china history books say ussr push India to intervene in last 9 days and was unacceptable with in return into stand off between USA carrier strike groups and ussr counter measures Pakistan also blame ussr and when ussr invaded Afghanistan Pakistan settled the score cia only provide funds and weapons Pakistan military and isi has full operational control with no say of cia and Pakistan isi broke the moral of red army long before stinger missle was introduced and Pakistan broke ussr into pieces only Russia left and ussr was dead forever

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Then it must be the world's best false flag. Because Danish intelligence were the ones who beamed us conversations between handlers, Americans were the ones who arrested who planned this, the British were the ones who had listened in on it and also Danish intelligence helped us get Tahawwur Rana a Pakistani former military doctor now rotting in Indian prison on trial. All false flaag

And you're innocent and angel country lol, your lot terrorists and spice are/were trying to destabilize Pakistan from day on you're supporting and financing terrorism in Pakistan from day one via Afghanistan and Iran who was/is sarbajeet singh and yadev? what he was doing in Baluchistan? preaching Hinduism peacefully there lol and don't bring conspiracy theories that he was abducted by Pakistani army or any of our religious groups from Iran, you have no solid evidence to support this crap theory, And what he was doing with fake second Iranian passport with Muslim name (Mubarak Ali Petal) and ICJ (international court of justice) confirmed it that he had second fake Iranian passport with Muslim name?

And I'm not interested in your nonsense and baseless blabbering, I want my answer lol

 

[Vikramaditya1]

Genuinely not sure what you want in terms of "evidence" that wasnt posted on this thread and on others already. The videos and pictures taken by your own citizens require your urgent and meticulous review before anything else. Others are convinced, even non-Pakistanis. Feel free to cite Arma 3 or conspiracies about female pilots all you wish but none of that obviates the hard truths of the matter. These periodic lapses of memory of yours are becoming a drain on those you converse with.

https://defencepk.com/forums/thread...ews-updates-and-discussion.21640/post-1423030

As for your IAF chief, please do persist with him. No complaints here.

Like I said Arma 3 footage by your government was there for all of us to see, it's not a conspiracy it's your own government showing us the footage of combat lol! As for the female pilot well it's not us who spread those rumours. Most of the pictures and videos taken by us showing rando rockets in field or interception at night still won't rack up to you guys sharing based getting bombed. PS: Your link don't seem to be working for me (No permission to view).
IAF did its job well, hit the targets disable runways hangars etc...

 

[Vikramaditya1]

I cited those threads as examples of the erroneous depiction therein of the sovereignty status of Kashmir, not because I am concerned over Indian wildlife and trains. Man, this isn't like you at all. Are you off your meds??

Lol! Your concern is noted you can cry to mods. You're dragging this on unnecessarily.

 

[Master Chief]

Like I said Arma 3 footage by your government was there for all of us to see, it's not a conspiracy it's your own government showing us the footage of combat lol! As for the female pilot well it's not us who spread those rumours. Most of the pictures and videos taken by us showing rando rockets in field or interception at night still won't rack up to you guys sharing based getting bombed. PS: Your link don't seem to be working for me (No permission to view).
IAF did its job well, hit the targets disable runways hangars etc...

If folks stay in jobs at IAF GHQ, do you think Pakistanis will be happy or unhappy?

 

[Mufasa]

Thank you for the sane reply and I hope sanity prevails on both sides.

I agree with your verdict on Indian not being able to absolutely dominate Pakistan is right but differ on the causes. India for the longest time has had measured response according to me. One of the biggest example in recent history is Kargil where Indian soilders didn't cross the LOC, the Navy wasn't utilized even though it would have saved a lot of resources. Some proponents might say it was to stop escalation/intervention from a third party and yes that might be partly right but a similar intervention was avoided/neglected in case of Bangladesh.

People here try to propogate current dispensation as a monster or something but the ground reality is very different. Modi landed in Pakistan impromptu, believed that PAthankot investigation will lead somewhere. When diplomacy failed (as it has for the longest time), the GoI shifted to a "limited" war.

On red lines:
We have heard a lot about red-lines e.g., Indus water, cross-border strikes by crossing IB etc. - both these red-lines have been crossed and now new ones established. Indian perspective: as long as we don't occupy Pakistan/take any territory, we have a fair right to protect our people and our interests esp. if we believe the threat is emanating from Pakistan's territory with or without the tacit approval of state. Right, wrong or indifferent - that is how an average Indian thinks...

Big picture:
This has been discussed to death on this forum, but I don't see a lasting peace until the control of Pakistan establishment (and Army) is loosened on the state. As an India, I see that the only purpose of Pakistan Army is to enrich itself at the cost of common man and it will be anything to be in prime position to do so. Fostering animosity in India is a direct result of it. Its fair to assume that Indian politicians will also use Pakistan as a shield or to distract from their performance but its hard to find any instance where a government was able to survive because they painted Pakistan bad. Even as powerful a leader as Indira Gandhi was ousted because of her dictatorial ways. Her victory against Pakistan had no bearing on the verdict.

Pakistan’s internal politics or leadership changes are not India’s strategic concern. India’s real task is to prioritise and fund its own defence manufacturing base, especially critical technologies that cannot be reliably imported under pressure.

The single most important gap is an indigenous fighter-jet engine. Without it, every Indian combat aircraft remains dependent on foreign suppliers for the most complex and strategically sensitive component. The Kaveri engine programme has received only about $239–250 million in total funding over four decades, a fraction of what peer programmes elsewhere received (often $10 billion or more). The engine was officially delinked from the Tejas programme in 2008; after that, funding and urgency dropped sharply. These facts need to be placed squarely before the Indian public and made an election issue.

Tejas Mk1A and Mk2 must take clear priority over additional large-scale Rafale imports. Scaling up the indigenous fighter line builds industrial depth, skills, and long-term autonomy in a way that pure imports cannot. The indigenous Uttam AESA radar is more strategically valuable than continued reliance on imported ELTA/EL/M-2052 radars; later Tejas batches are already planned to shift toward Uttam. Any imported platforms such as additional Rafales should, at minimum, integrate Indian mission computers, Indian radars, and Indian weapons, otherwise their full operational potential and sovereignty benefits inside the Indian Air Force remain limited.

A persistent lobby in India continues to push hard for imports over sustained indigenous development. That approach is easier in the short term but leaves India structurally vulnerable. Pakistan can source almost everything it needs from China; India does not have an equivalent reliable, low-friction supplier. Indian policymakers must internalise this asymmetry and act accordingly, fund engines properly, protect and accelerate Tejas and related programmes, insist on maximum Indian content in every major acquisition, and treat self-reliance in propulsion, sensors, and avionics as non-negotiable national priorities rather than optional aspirations.

 

[samsite84]

Pakistan’s internal politics or leadership changes are not India’s strategic concern. India’s real task is to prioritise and fund its own defence manufacturing base, especially critical technologies that cannot be reliably imported under pressure.

The single most important gap is an indigenous fighter-jet engine. Without it, every Indian combat aircraft remains dependent on foreign suppliers for the most complex and strategically sensitive component. The Kaveri engine programme has received only about $239–250 million in total funding over four decades, a fraction of what peer programmes elsewhere received (often $10 billion or more). The engine was officially delinked from the Tejas programme in 2008; after that, funding and urgency dropped sharply. These facts need to be placed squarely before the Indian public and made an election issue.

Tejas Mk1A and Mk2 must take clear priority over additional large-scale Rafale imports. Scaling up the indigenous fighter line builds industrial depth, skills, and long-term autonomy in a way that pure imports cannot. The indigenous Uttam AESA radar is more strategically valuable than continued reliance on imported ELTA/EL/M-2052 radars; later Tejas batches are already planned to shift toward Uttam. Any imported platforms such as additional Rafales should, at minimum, integrate Indian mission computers, Indian radars, and Indian weapons, otherwise their full operational potential and sovereignty benefits inside the Indian Air Force remain limited.

A persistent lobby in India continues to push hard for imports over sustained indigenous development. That approach is easier in the short term but leaves India structurally vulnerable. Pakistan can source almost everything it needs from China; India does not have an equivalent reliable, low-friction supplier. Indian policymakers must internalise this asymmetry and act accordingly, fund engines properly, protect and accelerate Tejas and related programmes, insist on maximum Indian content in every major acquisition, and treat self-reliance in propulsion, sensors, and avionics as non-negotiable national priorities rather than optional aspirations.

There is a difference in being a "concern" and a "factor" - Internal politics whether we like it or not is a major factor in determining long-term peace between two nations.

On the election issue (engine) - really? In a country where median income is <$3K, you want an engine to be an election issue - might be in top 100, not in my top 50

Agree with other points on self-sufficiency and defense spending etc. Call me a dove - but under current circumstances, Pakistan can't have an offensive posture and India controls the firing of the first bullet - what we don't control is the escalation ladder.

 

[r3alist]

Modi landed in Pakistan impromptu, believed that PAthankot investigation will lead somewhere.

He is coming again I reckon


Your media has an obvious aggressive anti Pakistan position, India has been running a campaign to have credibility dominance over Pakistan for decades hence you ensure Pakistan is regularly, minute by minute, disparaged.

That's an observation, it actually is intended to harm all Pakistanis when you consistently weave this in.

Studies have been done on this, flick through your major news outlet's you can't miss it


Let's not dispute the impact this has on your societal thinking


The good thing is you are over leveraged and it relies on India looking shining and Pakistan not having credibility

But the world changes and like Newtonian physics there is an Equal and opposite reaction back

 

[samsite84]

He is coming again I reckon


Your media has an obvious aggressive anti Pakistan position, India has been running a campaign to have credibility dominance over Pakistan for decades hence you ensure Pakistan is regularly, minute by minute, disparaged.

That's an observation, it actually is intended to harm all Pakistanis when you consistently weave this in.

Studies have been done on this, flick through your major news outlet's you can't miss it


Let's not dispute the impact this has on your societal thinking


The good thing is you are over leveraged and it relies on India looking shining and Pakistan not having credibility

But the world changes and like Newtonian physics there is an Equal and opposite reaction back

Whats the point and so-what of the post? Lost on me....

 

[White Privilege]

Thank you for the sane reply and I hope sanity prevails on both sides.

I agree with your verdict on Indian not being able to absolutely dominate Pakistan is right but differ on the causes. India for the longest time has had measured response according to me. One of the biggest example in recent history is Kargil where Indian soilders didn't cross the LOC, the Navy wasn't utilized even though it would have saved a lot of resources. Some proponents might say it was to stop escalation/intervention from a third party and yes that might be partly right but a similar intervention was avoided/neglected in case of Bangladesh.

People here try to propogate current dispensation as a monster or something but the ground reality is very different. Modi landed in Pakistan impromptu, believed that PAthankot investigation will lead somewhere. When diplomacy failed (as it has for the longest time), the GoI shifted to a "limited" war.

On red lines:
We have heard a lot about red-lines e.g., Indus water, cross-border strikes by crossing IB etc. - both these red-lines have been crossed and now new ones established. Indian perspective: as long as we don't occupy Pakistan/take any territory, we have a fair right to protect our people and our interests esp. if we believe the threat is emanating from Pakistan's territory with or without the tacit approval of state. Right, wrong or indifferent - that is how an average Indian thinks...

Big picture:
This has been discussed to death on this forum, but I don't see a lasting peace until the control of Pakistan establishment (and Army) is loosened on the state. As an India, I see that the only purpose of Pakistan Army is to enrich itself at the cost of common man and it will be anything to be in prime position to do so. Fostering animosity in India is a direct result of it. Its fair to assume that Indian politicians will also use Pakistan as a shield or to distract from their performance but its hard to find any instance where a government was able to survive because they painted Pakistan bad. Even as powerful a leader as Indira Gandhi was ousted because of her dictatorial ways. Her victory against Pakistan had no bearing on the verdict.

Haha, stop trying to trick us, we won't take your horse shit just because you pretend to talk slowly and sound reasonable.

Indians have always used deception to try to paint the picture they want but facts speak otherwise. During Kargil, it was a hoax the Indians did not try to 'cross LOC', that directive only meant, 'Don't get caught behind the LOC'. Indians pilots were shot down and captured, when they tried to interdict beyond LOC. Also recently a retired Indian general did sheepishly admit to 'Gurez battle', indicating they did/tried cross over. Recently, an Air Marshal bragged about attacking Bholari at the very onset of ceasefire, and that the Indian leadership 'allowed it'. So Indian self proclaimed ROEs == Horse shit.

Modi/Indian strategy was always to feign peace talks, then godi media on his orders obviously, starts war mongering. Saying 'Last time we talked to Pakistan, attack happened.....bla bla bla' , then do a false flag to give himself reason to break those negotiations at a 'moral high ground'. Mumbai, Pathankot, Uri, Pulwama, Pahalgam, same script, false flags.

On red lines:

Haha convenient Indian horse shit political gimmick. When u want to start hostilities u prop u a false flag, and when u don't, Amit Shah has recently 'discovered terrorism inside Indian territory' as well. Delhi blast, no Pakistan involvement, no Sindoor,because India just got thrashed...

Big Picture:

More horse shit
In reality, Indians want to keep Pakistan in a constant turmoil through political and terrorist interdictions, because that is what u do best, In all your neighborhood u have done this. Modi has stayed in power because of his Pakistan animosity, he also rose to power from Gujrat throught the BJP ranks because of Muslim animosity, everyone remembers Ishrat Jehan fake encounter case, where he tried to paint her as Muslim Pakistan supported extremist,he always tried to use action against Pakistan for political mileage.

Now shu with your deceptions.....