Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[ShapurII]

It does not matter who built the Suez Canal. The only thing that matter is "who holds the Suez Canal".

It does. If your argument for the legitimacy of collecting tolls from a waterway is that you have built it, and hence you are eligible to collect tolls for your investment, then the Suez Canal is also not eligible for that.

Iran has the right of territorial water of Strait of Hormuz in a way that it can extract oil, gas etc but when it comes to passing tankers through Strait of Hormuz, international law kicks in. All the straits in world allow fee passage of tankers without any toll tax.

State the international law that defines what rights Iran has in its territorial waters Even the UNCLOS, which Iran has not ratified, disagrees with what you said. Countries are allowed to exercise traffic control over their territorial waters in time of war. It is pretty explicit.

Do you think its fair for Pak or any other Gulf nation to pay $2 million per tanker toll tax when they are sitting not very far from Strait of Hormuz. No one likes it and no one in the world will allow you to charge toll tax.

Different countries are charged differently. If you play nice, you can be exempted from the toll. Iraq, China and Russia are already receiving serious discounts. Pakistan is getting discounts too, but not as much as Iraq, China or Russia.

 

[hussain0216]

The pain is real

They are trying to force Iran to open the Hormuz and surrender to terms


The closure of the Hormuz is as painful as any missile, bomb, drone or anytime

Iranians shouldn't be upset at the ceasefire, it's the Hormuz closure that's the real weapon


Football world cup is coming up, keep everything shut

 

[lightning f57]

The United States is a net exporter of total petroleum (crude oil and refined products) as of 2026, meaning it produces more than it consumes.please check yourself also

Most people look at raw numbers and miss the finer details.

US refineries are setup to process heavy crude they import that from likes of Canada and now Venezuela, US is a net importer of heavy crude oil.

US is a net exporter of lighter crude oil, but the markets in Asia that have been affected by the war, their refineries prefer medium to heavy crude as their industries need things like diesel, jet fuel, petrochemicals for fertilisers. US light crude is not suited for that.

So the US can not replace the PG oil in type or quantity. Trumpy spouts hot air thats why closure of the SOH effects every country including the US.

Crude oil is the fuel which runs modern economies, trumpy might say we dont need oil from the PG but he knows oil prices are spot and the same everywhere. He knows if ME, Asian, European countries economies tank they wont be buying expensive US services or high tech goods, they wont be investing in the US either, US is a net importer- scarcity in goods tarrif or not will increase import costs for Americans leading to higher inflation.

Inflation will push up interest rates which will make cost of lending go up increasing for US government. Then you will have lower economic activity, higher interest rates higher inflation leading to companies cutting investment and costs - lots of job cuts, then recession.

This takes time but already a big shock has occurred, the shock wave just hasn't hit us yet.

 

[Pak-Warrior]

The point is that if the legitimacy of your toll system comes from "having built" it, as if it was some sort of investment, then Egypt does not have such legitimacy either. Egypt inherited the Canal of Suez from the Persians, the Brits and the French and we have inherited it from God. I don't see a difference.

Its not "having built". Its that a canal runs entirely through a sovereign territory of a country. Why on earth it should not be tolled. Even if the canal would be God made, Egypt would still be collecting tolls.

The strait of hormuz does not pass through Iran. If tolls are to be collected from straits and seas then Oman has equal rights. Then singapore and malaysia too will say that we are putting tolls over strait of malacca. Spain should apply tolls at strait of Gibraltar. Even arguing for this cause is bad. Seas belongs to all nations of the world. Whole world will engage in WW3 if neighboring countries try to tollized the choke points of global oceans.

Lastly, GCC countries will never pay tolls anyways. They will pass the cost to consumers / buyers, means higher price of oil for ordinary people. Instead thinking of tolls, Iran should pursue integration into international system and should pursue sanctions relief. I think Iran got leverage by blocking the strait, it should have exchanged that with sanctions relief but US has already countered it by blocking Iran's ports and exports. So now that card is gone. Now US says we will lift blockade once Iran open up strait.

 

[Sal12]

It does. If your argument for the legitimacy of collecting tolls from a waterway is that you have built it, and hence you are eligible to collect tolls for your investment, then the Suez Canal is also not eligible for that.


State the international law that defines what rights Iran has in its territorial waters Even the UNCLOS, which Iran has not ratified, disagrees with what you said. Countries are allowed to exercise traffic control over their territorial waters in time of war. It is pretty explicit.


Different countries are charged differently. If you play nice, you can be exempted from the toll. Iraq, China and Russia are already receiving serious discounts. Pakistan is getting discounts too, but not as much as Iraq, China or Russia.

"Transit passage is a legal regime under UNCLOS Part III allowing all ships and aircraft unimpeded freedom of navigation and overflight through straits used for international navigation. It applies to transit between one part of the high seas/EEZ and another, ensuring continuous and expeditious passage that cannot be suspended by coastal states, differing from the more restrictive "innocent passage".

Key aspects of transit passage include:

• Scope: Applies to straits connecting high seas/EEZ, such as the Straits of Malacca, Gibraltar, Hormuz, and Bab-el-Mandeb."

As far as Suez Canal is concerned, the only thing that does matter is "who holds the Suez Canal".

I want all Pakistanis to think about paying the toll tax per tanker through Strait of Hormuz and be nice to Iranians as you said.

Anyway Iran will not be allowed to charge toll tax at Strait of Hormuz and US did the right thing to call out your bluff by blocking the Iranian ports.

 

[ShapurII]

Its not "having built". Its that a canal runs entirely through a sovereign territory of a country. Why on earth it should not be tolled. Even if the canal would be God made, Egypt would still be collecting tolls.

Because it's a waterway. Why on earth should it be tolled? It seems pretty arbitrary.

I suppose if somebody comes to your shore from the Indian Ocean and starts fishing there, you would also argue that you should be able to say eff off to him, no?

The strait of hormuz does not pass through Iran. If tolls are to be collected from straits and seas then Oman has equal rights. Then singapore and malaysia too will say that we are putting tolls over strait of malacca. Spain should apply tolls at strait of Gibraltar. Even arguing for this cause is bad. Seas belongs to all nations of the world. Whole world will engage in WW3 if neighboring countries try to tollized the choke points of global oceans.

The Strait of Hormuz does not pass through Iran, but the deeper part of it which is used by heavy tankers and containers, particularly oil tankers, falls inside our territorial waters. The concept of territorial waters is already an established thing. Even the UNCLOS, which Iran has not ratified, accepts that sovereign states have a 12 nautical mile buffer that they can exercise full control over it.

Lastly, GCC countries will never pay tolls anyways. They will pass the cost to consumers / buyers, means higher price of oil for ordinary people. Instead thinking of tolls, Iran should pursue integration into international system and should pursue sanctions relief. I think Iran got leverage by blocking the strait, it should have exchanged that with sanctions relief but US has already countered it by blocking Iran's ports and exports. So now that card is gone. Now US says we will lift blockade once Iran open up strait.

No integration into international system or sanctions relief has been offered to Iran. So, that's a hypothetical situation that is far from the current reality. GCC states will not be able to pass through the Strait of Hormuz. It mostly impacts their imports rather than their exports.

 

[hussain0216]

Most people look at raw numbers and miss the finer details.

US refineries are setup to process heavy crude they import that from likes of Canada and now Venezuela, US is a net importer of heavy crude oil.

US is a net exporter of lighter crude oil, but the markets in Asia that have been affected by the war, their refineries prefer medium to heavy crude as their industries need things like diesel, petrochemicals for fertilisers. US light crude is not suited for that.

So the US can not replace the PG oil in type or quantity. Trumpy spouts hot air thats why closure of the SOH effects every country including the US.

Crude oil is the fuel which runs modern economies, trumpy might say we dont need oil from the PG but he knows oil prices are spot and the same everywhere. He knows if ME, Asian, European countries economies tank they wont be buying expensive US services or high tech goods, they wont be investing in the US either, US is a net importer- scarcity in goods tarrif or not will increase import costs for Americans leading to higher inflation.

Inflation will push up interest rates which will make cost of lending go up increasing for US government. Then you will have lower economic activity, higher interest rates higher inflation leading to companies cutting investment and costs - lots of job cuts, then recession.

This takes time but already a big shock has occurred, the shock wave just hasn't hit us yet.

Its not just that, multiple economies are being effected, Including vital U.S allies like the GCC and Japan, South Korea etc etc

This only will their be economic slowdown, but these states are a big part of the petro dollar system and recycling and buying U.S debt

If multiple states effected you are pushing the world towards recession that will be worse then any in living memory


You have got to let it happen, if you want to really hurt the U.S then make their stupidity pay and make the U.S allies suffer for their stupidity

 

[ShapurII]

"Transit passage is a legal regime under UNCLOS Part III allowing all ships and aircraft unimpeded freedom of navigation and overflight through straits used for international navigation. It applies to transit between one part of the high seas/EEZ and another, ensuring continuous and expeditious passage that cannot be suspended by coastal states, differing from the more restrictive "innocent passage".

Key aspects of transit passage include:

• Scope: Applies to straits connecting high seas/EEZ, such as the Straits of Malacca, Gibraltar, Hormuz, and Bab-el-Mandeb."

As far as Suez Canal is concerned, the only thing that does matter is "who holds the Suez Canal".

I want all Pakistanis to think about paying the toll tax per tanker through Strait of Hormuz and be nice to Iranians as you said.

Anyway Iran will not be allowed to charge toll tax at Strait of Hormuz and US did the right thing to call out your bluff by blocking the Iranian ports.

Exactly. Now try again, because as I have repeatedly said, Iran has not ratified UNCLOS. Hence, Iran is not bound to respect the UNCLOS.

 

[sharreman10]

 

[Shags101]

The pain is real

They are trying to force Iran to open the Hormuz and surrender to terms


The closure of the Hormuz is as painful as any missile, bomb, drone or anytime

Iranians shouldn't be upset at the ceasefire, it's the Hormuz closure that's the real weapon


Football world cup is coming up, keep everything shut

Weird though right trump keeps pretending that American oil companies can cover any and all fuel related issues I’m thinking of there isn’t a grand deal in store for Iran we are going back to war in the next couple of days and let’s see what happens with the world crumbling all around us because of it

 

[PakistanLVR]

Weird though right trump keeps pretending that American oil companies can cover any and all fuel related issues I’m thinking of there isn’t a grand deal in store for Iran we are going back to war in the next couple of days and let’s see what happens with the world crumbling all around us because of it

FIFA World Cup 26 is few months away I think. This will impact them multiple ways.. What a waste.

 

[925boy]

The EU had a vote on the association agreement a while back, where Hungary under Orban vetoed it. There may be a better chance to cancel the trade association agreement now.

Hungary did accidentally invite Netanyahu recently to some independence celebration, but they have now withdrawn that, they have also said they will cancel their withdrawal form the ICC and they will arrest Netanyahu if he tries to come to Hungary.

Are these the reasons(due to israeli retaliation) Orban/his party recently lost an election in hungary?

 

[PakistanLVR]

"Transit passage is a legal regime under UNCLOS Part III allowing all ships and aircraft unimpeded freedom of navigation and overflight through straits used for international navigation. It applies to transit between one part of the high seas/EEZ and another, ensuring continuous and expeditious passage that cannot be suspended by coastal states, differing from the more restrictive "innocent passage".

Key aspects of transit passage include:

• Scope: Applies to straits connecting high seas/EEZ, such as the Straits of Malacca, Gibraltar, Hormuz, and Bab-el-Mandeb."

As far as Suez Canal is concerned, the only thing that does matter is "who holds the Suez Canal".

I want all Pakistanis to think about paying the toll tax per tanker through Strait of Hormuz and be nice to Iranians as you said.

Anyway Iran will not be allowed to charge toll tax at Strait of Hormuz and US did the right thing to call out your bluff by blocking the Iranian ports.

Pakistanis like you and your boyfriend arguing about international niceties and gentlemen agreements are the reason why Muslims keep getting their as* kicked. IDGAF about any international norm or agreements. He who has power, will wield it. WTF you and the Arabs going to do about it? run to the UN?

 

[925boy]

Lemme say this now- I think US is Trying to lure the Iranian leaders and negotiators to Pakistan for a fake 2nd round of talks in order to assassinate them, which will be way US chooses to restart its war with Iran. I also do not think US is serious about succesfully competing round 2 of negotiations with iran.

Trump has been saying a peace deal is close to signing to calm and manipulate the markets.

 

[tsunset]