Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[Kyussis]

and we are supposed to believe those F1s can fire the missiles and have radar ?

the best option send them to museum and instead build some kowsar with the money you save . they at least have radar

Since when do you even need radar to fire a heat seeking missile?

 

[Oscar]

Intresting analysis. Further proves my point that the absurd RCS of 20+ for SU-35 claimed by some on here was indeed absurd.

It appears if a stealth variant of SU-35S were to be made than front RCS could be as low .5-.75 or at the minimum less than 2.0m2. The US is doing this with the F-15EX.

This again gives credence to widely reported RCS of 3-4m2 for SU-35 as is. Again that is frontal RCS and not the average RCS which is likely higher.

This is actually getting India interested since Russia wants to see if it can apply this to the Su-30SM series. @Faceless
However, it still suffers as you have pointed out the issue of all other reflections and different angles as well. After all the weapons themselves have a baseline RCS and that adds on too.

 

[Faceless]

This is actually getting India interested since Russia wants to see if it can apply this to the Su-30SM series. @Faceless
However, it still suffers as you have pointed out the issue of all other reflections and different angles as well. After all the weapons themselves have a baseline RCS and that adds on too.

I think you are completely off the mark this time
1. Talks with Russia to reduce RCS of the Su 30 in 2012- 16 never materialised because in IAF's view the RCS reduction is not worth the money spent (Russians quoted a very high cost) not to mention after externally mounting the weapons RCS would increase so much that any tangible benefit from this RCS reduction excercise would be gone

2. Indian govt and IAF have categorically refused to go to Russia for any sort of upgrade for it's jets, citing reasons such as
• Russians charging exorbitant prices
• Indian MIC having the capability to do the upgrade themselves
• Indian upgrade being better than the Russian one due to us having access to western subsystems (primarily Israeli)

3. If IAF ever decides to go for RCS reduction measures (and this is a big if) it will not be Russian for sure, India has developed all sorts of RCS reducing materials and we can do it ourselves
Take this for example

https://x.com/Rethik_D/status/1752945485764247680?s=20

 

[Oscar]

I think you are completely off the mark this time
1. Talks with Russia to reduce RCS of the Su 30 in 2012- 16 never materialised because in IAF's view the RCS reduction is not worth the money spent (Russians quoted a very cost)
2. Indian govt and IAF have categorically refused to go to Russia for any sort of upgrade for it's jets, citing reasons such as
• Russians charging exorbitant prices
• Indian MIC having the capability to do the upgrade themselves
• Indian upgrade being better than the Russian one due to us having access to western subsystems (primarily Israeli)

3. If IAF ever decides to go for RCS reduction measures (and this is a big if) it will not be Russian for sure, India has developed all sorts of RCS reducing materials and we can do it ourselves
Take this for example

https://x.com/Rethik_D/status/1752945485764247680?s=20

I saw it as a recent news article so made the link - interesting that it never panned out with them.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Since when do you even need radar to fire a heat seeking missile?

since when you need to detect your enemy first and then fire the missiles. not throw it in random direction and hope it hit to target . if you don't have radar then you fire missile at 1-2km instead of 10-20km away

 

[Hack-Hook]

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f1 has radar , iranian ex-iraqi ones have them fried

 

[Kyussis]

since when you need to detect your enemy first and then fire the missiles. not throw it in random direction and hope it hit to target . if you don't have radar then you fire missile at 1-2km instead of 10-20km away

So it is possible to fire IR missiles even without radar. Where do you get this idea that the Iraqi Mirage F-1s that fled to Iran had their radars "fried"?

 

[Hack-Hook]

So it is possible to fire IR missiles even without radar. Where do you get this idea that the Iraqi Mirage F-1s that fled to Iran had their radars "fried"?

the fact that they do , and yes from 2 km away you are welcome trying to go that near to enemy aircraft.
its not korean war anymore

 

[Kyussis]

the fact that they do , and yes from 2 km away you are welcome trying to go that near to enemy aircraft.
its not korean war anymore

what is the source for you "Fact" please?

 

[Hack-Hook]

what is the source for you "Fact" please?

for gods sake cyrano IV radar of mirage f1 is even more picky than awg-9 of f-14 in what missiles it can talk to, it can guide its gun , it can talk with Matra r.511 and Matra R.530 missiles
they also can talk with Exocet and AS.37 Martel. and AS30l laser guided bomb
that is pretty much all of it and we have no access to those missiles.
if you want you can put two sidewinder (only two on wing tips) there but you must see enemy aircraft and align yourself to it to be able to use them and that is only because sidewinder and Magic missile which is a lot better than AIM-9j use the same railing
(side winder on F1 was so bad that RAAF scrapped the plan of using it on F1 and simply opted for magic missile)

 

[Kyussis]

for gods sake cyrano IV radar of mirage f1 is even more picky than awg-9 of f-14 in what missiles it can talk to, it can guide its gun , it can talk with Matra r.511 and Matra R.530 missiles
they also can talk with Exocet and AS.37 Martel. and AS30l laser guided bomb
that is pretty much all of it and we have no access to those missiles.
if you want you can put two sidewinder (only two on wing tips) there but you must see enemy aircraft and align yourself to it to be able to use them

Is the Cyrano IV radar more complicated than the AWG-9? Is it beyond the capability of IRIAF to maintain and operate? IF the Mirage F-1s are as totally useless as you say then why on earth have the IRIAF spent so much valuable/scarce resources to incorporate the type into active service and maintain them for the last 33 years?

 

[Hack-Hook]

Is the Cyrano IV radar more complicated than the AWG-9? Is it beyond the capability of IRIAF to maintain and operate? IF the Mirage F-1s are as totally useless as you say then why on earth have the IRIAF spent so much valuable/scarce resources to incorporate the type into active service and maintain them for the last 33 years?

AWG-9 is not problem it can talk with a wide variety of weapons . the problem lie with AIM-54 that only can talk with AWG-9
in case of cyrano IV, the problem lies with the radar it only can talk with those weapons i mentioned . the radar had its perks at its time but today ......

about why they are kept its discussed many time in previous forum , various factions in IRIAF lobbying and needs to heave something so pilots can achieve their minimum yearly flight hours

 

[Kyussis]

AWG-9 is not problem it can talk with a wide variety of weapons . the problem lie with AIM-54 that only can talk with AWG-9
in case of cyrano IV, the problem lies with the radar it only can talk with those weapons i mentioned . the radar had its perks at its time but today ......

about why they are kept its discussed many time in previous forum , various factions in IRIAF lobbying and needs to heave something so pilots can achieve their minimum yearly flight hours

None of the above indicates a fact that the radar is "Fried". So by your own account, the F-1s do have a radar to use to find targets beyond 1 or 2 kms!

 

[MMCM]

for gods sake cyrano IV radar of mirage f1 is even more picky than awg-9 of f-14 in what missiles it can talk to, it can guide its gun , it can talk with Matra r.511 and Matra R.530 missiles
they also can talk with Exocet and AS.37 Martel. and AS30l laser guided bomb
that is pretty much all of it and we have no access to those missiles.
if you want you can put two sidewinder (only two on wing tips) there but you must see enemy aircraft and align yourself to it to be able to use them and that is only because sidewinder and Magic missile which is a lot better than AIM-9j use the same railing
(side winder on F1 was so bad that RAAF scrapped the plan of using it on F1 and simply opted for magic missile)

RAAF never operated the Mirage F-1

 

[Hack-Hook]

None of the above indicates a fact that the radar is "Fried". So by your own account, the F-1s do have a radar to use to find targets beyond 1 or 2 kms!

well you want to argue the radar is operational after 30 years of neglect.
the airplane that come to Iran did not even had pylons or fuel tanks, they had to use f-5 fuel tanks with them