Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[Deino]

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The increasing number of Yak-130 will certainly point to a possible localization of Saljut AL-222-25. The afterburning version will solve problems of IRIAF's future light designs like magic but will be stupid to waste these engines in anything other than F-5 derivatives or YAK-130M2 (full combat capable version). 2 x Afterburing Saljut AL-225 means a Kowsar size fighter now has a thrust higher than Indian Tejas, F-20 Tigershark.

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Is this a joke? Russia does not have Yak-130 that uses or can use afterburner engines. This is just the Chinese L-15 and consequently the idea is simply wrong or requires a complete redesign of the Yak-130, which Russia will certainly not finance or Iran can do alone.

In this respect, all theoretical calculation of "has a thrust higher than Indian Tejas, F-20 Tigershark" is simply a bad joke or wishfull what-if-thinking.

 

[Flotilla]

Is this a joke? Russia does not have Yak-130 that uses or can use afterburner engines. This is just the Chinese L-15 and consequently the idea is simply wrong or requires a complete redesign of the Yak-130, which Russia will certainly not finance or Iran can do alone.

In this respect, all theoretical calculation of "has a thrust higher than Indian Tejas, F-20 Tigershark" is simply a bad joke or wishfull what-if-thinking.

He is talking about any hypothethical engine based on the one of a derivative Yak130, not a derivative Yak130.
Emirzad, don't read Deino... Santa is not your parents

 

[Deino]

He is talking about any hypothethical engine based on the one of a derivative Yak130, not a derivative Yak130.
Emirzad, don't read Deino... Santa is not your parents

So he is just making fancy what-if plans?!

 

[ToddE]

Is this a joke? Russia does not have Yak-130 that uses or can use afterburner engines.

The only joke I see here is your post which you decided to go through with, without even understanding the context of discussion.

If you would have read the discussion I have been posting here, you would have understood that Iran reportedly is in talks with Russia for LP of Saljut AL-222-25 (Russian version). The engine in question is not even for YAK-130 but supposedly for the local project which the Journalist in question thinks could rather be for Yasin AT's combat version, kinda similar to YAK-130M2, he did not say it with certainty though so it could be anything. I gave the links to the published article, which you clearly did not go through.

This is just the Chinese L-15 and consequently the idea is simply wrong or requires a complete redesign of the Yak-130, which Russia will certainly not finance or Iran can do alone.

In this respect, all theoretical calculation of "has a thrust higher than Indian Tejas, F-20 Tigershark" is simply a bad joke or wishfull what-if-thinking.

2 x Saljut AL-222-25 with afterburners will provide higher wet thrust than F404 turbofan which powers Tejas and F-20 Tigershark. I am not exactly sure what is triggering you? are you emotionally attached to the thrusts of Indian Tejas and F-20 Tigershark somehow so if someone tries to have a discussion based upon design scenarios, you start loosing it?

 

[Deino]

That may be all true … But it is not realistic, its just a hypothetical what-if chatter, that makes no sense in a news thread.

 

[ToddE]

That may be all true … But it is not realistic, its just a hypothetical what-if chatter, that makes no sense in a news thread.

Some designated aviation journalist published a report on "possible" TOT of turbofans from Russia to Iran, that is their job, to report "scoop" right? We here discussed the possibilities based upon the scoop, not sure what is so triggering for you in all of that.

 

[Deino]

Some designated aviation journalist published a report on "possible" TOT of turbofans from Russia to Iran, that is their job, to report "scoop" right? We here discussed the possibilities based upon the scoop, not sure what is so triggering for you in all of that.

My point is simply that we hear so much on similar fancy projects since decades - „all F-14s will be re-engined with AL-31F engines; I promise …!“ - and similar such reports on RD-33-production and updated engines being ready to deliver to power this and that fancy new Iranian fighter projects! Concepts ranging from „reengined“ single-engined F-5-fighters up to totally new designs and even stealth-fighter-like types were discussed as if they are facts! … and in the NOTHING happened!

My point is, it is indeed interesting to discuss such concepts, ideas and rumours, but why in a Iran AF news thread especially since they are all MOST unlikely up to almost impossible?
And in the same category this proposal fits nicely since there is NO Russian afterburner-version of the said engine available (it was built in Ukraine), Russia itself struggles to develop an indigenous replacement for the regular Yak-130 without afterburner and so these reports are just „whisful-thinking“.

Why not starting a separate thread for such ideas?

 

[sahureka2]

And in the same category this proposal fits nicely since there is NO Russian afterburner-version of the said engine available (it was built in Ukraine), Russia itself struggles to develop an indigenous replacement for the regular Yak-130 without afterburner and so these reports are just „whisful-thinking“.

I have not noticed any problems for Russia to produce the AI-225-25 by replacing the parts previously produced in Ukraine.
At the recent air show in China they presented several engines including the new SM-100, RUAviation magazine wrote:
"The SM-100 engine is designed in the dimensions of the AI-225-25 and at the same time has a lower weight, as well as a thrust increased by a third, up to 3300 kgf"
So a new engine, for which potentially they could also make a version with afterburner, but even without it has a significantly increased power compared to the previous AI-225-25, so they already have an indigenous engine.
The question in the end will be whether Saturn will agree to grant the license to build this modern SM-100, perhaps easier for the AI-225-25.

 

[Geo]

My point is simply that we hear so much on similar fancy projects since decades - „all F-14s will be re-engined with AL-31F engines; I promise …!“ - and similar such reports on RD-33-production and updated engines being ready to deliver to power this and that fancy new Iranian fighter projects! Concepts ranging from „reengined“ single-engined F-5-fighters up to totally new designs and even stealth-fighter-like types were discussed as if they are facts! … and in the NOTHING happened!

My point is, it is indeed interesting to discuss such concepts, ideas and rumours, but why in a Iran AF news thread especially since they are all MOST unlikely up to almost impossible?
And in the same category this proposal fits nicely since there is NO Russian afterburner-version of the said engine available (it was built in Ukraine), Russia itself struggles to develop an indigenous replacement for the regular Yak-130 without afterburner and so these reports are just „whisful-thinking“.

Why not starting a separate thread for such ideas?

Let's be precise, please. Russia is not trying to develop a "replacement for the regular Yak-130".
The reasons for the development of the MiG-UTS are the fulfillment of the needs for the second stage of VKS training after the end of the life of the Aero L-39 and the delay (including due to sanctions) of the propeller aircraft projects (the conceptually outdated Yak-152 and the more modern turboprop UZGA UTS-800).
This development is completely rational, the MiG-UTS will be powered by one AI-222-25 engine.

As for the Yak-130, there is no need to develop any non afterburning "replacement"; the aircraft has great modernization potential, which can be greatly increased by applying the BRLS-130R radar system with an AESA antenna or the new SM-100 engines.

So no replacement - just like the M-345 in the Italian Air Force is not a replacement, but an addition to the heavier, more complex and more demanding M-346 aircraft to maintain and pilot (including a higher landing speed). In short, they are aircraft of a different category.

 

[vmro]

The only joke I see here is your post which you decided to go through with, without even understanding the context of discussion.

If you would have read the discussion I have been posting here, you would have understood that Iran reportedly is in talks with Russia for LP of Saljut AL-222-25 (Russian version). The engine in question is not even for YAK-130 but supposedly for the local project which the Journalist in question thinks could rather be for Yasin AT's combat version, kinda similar to YAK-130M2, he did not say it with certainty though so it could be anything. I gave the links to the published article, which you clearly did not go through.



2 x Saljut AL-222-25 with afterburners will provide higher wet thrust than F404 turbofan which powers Tejas and F-20 Tigershark. I am not exactly sure what is triggering you? are you emotionally attached to the thrusts of Indian Tejas and F-20 Tigershark somehow so if someone tries to have a discussion based upon design scenarios, you start loosing it?

YAK-130 is very potentially important for Iranian airforce power development...maybe best plane in its class globally, I repeat, in its class, but no bad even as striking option, what is already done.... new breath of fresh air for Iranian airforce craft and squads ...

I don’t know if it would be capable to clash with modern western types behind Iranian anti airforce shield, not in offensive operations of course...????

For Iran is crucial licensed domestic production of competent potent airforce, and continuing the path after that with full domestic self-reliance ....

 

[Hack-Hook]

2 x Saljut AL-222-25 with afterburners will provide higher wet thrust than F404 turbofan which powers Tejas and F-20 Tigershark. I am not exactly sure what is triggering you? are you emotionally attached to the thrusts of Indian Tejas and F-20 Tigershark somehow so if someone tries to have a discussion based upon design scenarios, you start loosing it?

what about fuel consumption ?

 

[Deino]

I have not noticed any problems for Russia to produce the AI-225-25 by replacing the parts previously produced in Ukraine.
At the recent air show in China they presented several engines including the new SM-100, RUAviation magazine wrote:
"The SM-100 engine is designed in the dimensions of the AI-225-25 and at the same time has a lower weight, as well as a thrust increased by a third, up to 3300 kgf"
So a new engine, for which potentially they could also make a version with afterburner, but even without it has a significantly increased power compared to the previous AI-225-25, so they already have an indigenous engine.
The question in the end will be whether Saturn will agree to grant the license to build this modern SM-100, perhaps easier for the AI-225-25.

Well, maybe you didn't notice any issues on Russian engines since you don't want to see them, but that's again not the point!

The point is, NO Russian afterburning engine - be it the AI-225-25-based design or as SM-100-development - fits the Yak-130! Only the Chinese L-15B since the Yak-130's rear section is totally different!





As such, the engine you are dreaming of is not ready and Russia needs to redesign the Yak-130 ... do you really think this could be done so easily?

Let's be precise, please. Russia is not trying to develop a "replacement for the regular Yak-130".
The reasons for the development of the MiG-UTS are the fulfillment of the needs for the second stage of VKS training after the end of the life of the Aero L-39 and the delay (including due to sanctions) of the propeller aircraft projects (the conceptually outdated Yak-152 and the more modern turboprop UZGA UTS-800).
This development is completely rational, the MiG-UTS will be powered by one AI-222-25 engine.

As for the Yak-130, there is no need to develop any non afterburning "replacement"; the aircraft has great modernization potential, which can be greatly increased by applying the BRLS-130R radar system with an AESA antenna or the new SM-100 engines.

So no replacement - just like the M-345 in the Italian Air Force is not a replacement, but an addition to the heavier, more complex and more demanding M-346 aircraft to maintain and pilot (including a higher landing speed). In short, they are aircraft of a different category.

Sorry in case you missed my point, I was only speaking of the engine for the Yak-130, the aircraft itself won't be replaced anytime soon.

 

[OldTwilight]

I don't know why IRI try to hide everything from Iranians !?

 

[Piet]

... they will need to re-design the entire airframe. This means it won't be Qaher anymore. It will become something else. I have a hard time believing that IAIO has the capability to put two assembly lines for two wingmen, one of which is the size of an F-16?

The above is a big no-no. At this moment the IRIAF do not need major surgery on the loyal wingman. Just get it completed, and on the tarmac. Two assembly lines. Highly unlikely

Most loyal wingmen are just 25-35 feet in length. I believe this vehicle will be this size as well and they might build 1-2 squadrons to put them on carrier and call it "mass production".

... (facepalm) ... .

2 x Afterburing Saljut AL-225 means a Kowsar size fighter now has a thrust higher than Indian Tejas, F-20 Tigershark.

See below thus.

The acquisition of SU-35S, Yak-130, and the very possible future acquisition of SU-30SM, MIG-29 SMT(upgrade) will kill all these local projects.

Most definitely. To pursue the internal projects would be a waste of already short in supply capital, manpower and facilities, that would be better served to execute a well orchestrated SU-30SM/SU-35, MiG-29 etc., and YAK-130 acquisition plan.

Will give better reply than that of the above, next time.

Piet

 

[sahureka2]

Well, maybe you didn't notice any issues on Russian engines since you don't want to see them, but that's again not the point!

The point is, NO Russian afterburning engine - be it the AI-225-25-based design or as SM-100-development - fits the Yak-130! Only the Chinese L-15B since the Yak-130's rear section is totally different!

View attachment 89922

View attachment 89923

As such, the engine you are dreaming of is not ready and Russia needs to redesign the Yak-130 ... do you really think this could be done so easily?

But I didn't even mention the YAK-130, I only mentioned the thrusters, so I don't understand your answer.
In any case if we want to talk about YAK-130M with the new SM-100
it's probably not that urgent to equip them with post burners, not even the SU-25 has them.
But differently if from the basis of the YAK-130 project they think of creating a new light supersonic single-seat fighter, I don't see what the problem would be for Yakovlev to take back its projects and make the necessary modifications to possibly install SM-100 with afterburner, even because many sources indicate that the JL-10/L-15 was developed with very important help from Russian designers, therefore they also have direct knowledge of the Chinese aircraft.
So going back to my words from the previous post, the Russians have been producing AI-225-25s since 2015 without any Ukrainian involvement, so they have no problem with this turbofan today and will continue to support customers who use it.
But the future certainly is the more modern SM-100 and they will dedicate any new development to this engine, which could also be used on other aeronautical platforms, and if necessary, they will certainly develop one with afterburner.