Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[Mr Iran Eye]

I don't really always agree with Emirzad, he has the right to his opinion and his analysis even I sometimes find far from reality in my opinion. Mr. Dinosaur almost talks about censoring opinions, calm down please, you should self-moderate because your opinion that I read is also very questionable. If I say that the Kowsar project is still active and Emirzad says the opposite, we don't have to be reprimanded for that.

Calm down Mr. Dinosaur, you seem stressed, have a herbal tea it will do you good

 

[mack8]

Mr Dinosaur proves once again he is not fit as a moderator both here and elsewhere. You'd think a moderator would at least be able to keep his political bias to himself, do his job with impartiality and don't literally troll a thread on a subject he has little grasp anyway, but i guess that's Mr Dinosaur for you. I for one follow Emirzad's very insightful and knowledgeable posts as often as i can even if i don't have much time to write here.

Anyway, found another angle of F-4E with R-73 here:

Reddit - Please wait for verification

www.reddit.com

On the F-4 subject, have you guys ever seen a picture of the F-4E Dowran modernized cockpit? I did see a close-up of allegedly (one of?) the cockpit display, but not of the whole cockpit.

And to again ask about something that peaks my curiousity to no end, ie the F-14 with R-73 missiles, does anyone know Mr Shaltookei, maybe he can be asked about any pictures of the F-14/R-73 combo? There must be some pictures extant somewhere!

Incidentally, and probably known already, but new to me is that apparently back in the 90s there some talks of getting AL-31F engines for the F-14. That's one helluva what-if/could-have-been right there, iranian F-14AM with AL-31F engines, R-27 and R-73 missiles, plus the Fakkour-90.

I do know Amir proposed a similar concept recently but with mostly Su-35 avionics (Irbis radar, AL-31FN engines etc.)

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[Immortals]

Mr Dinosaur proves once again he is not fit as a moderator both here and elsewhere. You'd think a moderator would at least be able to keep his political bias to himself, do his job with impartiality and don't literally troll a thread on a subject he has little grasp anyway, but i guess that's Mr Dinosaur for you. I for one follow Emirzad's very insightful and knowledgeable posts as often as i can even if i don't have much time to write here.

Anyway, found another angle of F-4E with R-73 here:

Reddit - Please wait for verification

www.reddit.com

On the F-4 subject, have you guys ever seen a picture of the F-4E Dowran modernized cockpit? I did see a close-up of allegedly (one of?) the cockpit display, but not of the whole cockpit.

And to again ask about something that peaks my curiousity to no end, ie the F-14 with R-73 missiles, does anyone know Mr Shaltookei, maybe he can be asked about any pictures of the F-14/R-73 combo? There must be some pictures extant somewhere!

Incidentally, and probably known already, but new to me is that apparently back in the 90s there some talks of getting AL-31F engines for the F-14. That's one helluva what-if/could-have-been right there, iranian F-14AM with AL-31F engines, R-27 and R-73 missiles, plus the Fakkour-90.

I do know Amir proposed a similar concept recently but with mostly Su-35 avionics (Irbis radar, AL-31FN engines etc.)

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You guys need to let F-14 rest in peace. It served the country beautifully, but at a high maintenance cost to even its original creator (US spent $30K/hr to maintain F-14 in 90’s - if you adjust for inflation that’s over 50K/hr today).

Those airframes have been stressed for over 45 years now. Every time a pilot did heavy g force maneuvers it’s stress the frame. I don’t know how long you think titanium can last without degrading, but it’s not forever.

These planes need to mothballed by 2030’s. They can’t fly forever. And no it’s not worth reverse engineering this plane. It belongs to a different era of warfare.

 

[ToddE]

My point is simply that we hear so much on similar fancy projects since decades - „all F-14s will be re-engined with AL-31F engines; I promise …!“

Please provide the source from which you "heard" that "all F-14s will be re-engined with AL-31F engines"? Any journalistic article, any news report, any official source will do.

- and similar such reports on RD-33-production

Again, please provide the source from which you "heard" that RD-33 will be produced in iran?

and updated engines being ready to deliver

It's an open knowledge that Iran produces (assembles?) Turbojets for its F-5 derivatives. Stop mixing hallucinations with facts.

Concepts ranging from „reengined“ single-engined F-5-fighters

Please provide any journalistic article/report or official source for from which you heard "reengined single-engined F-5-fighters"

I think you are hallucinating because not a single shred of journalistic report or evidence exists for what you are claiming here. I have been following Iranian military for close to ~30 years of my life, I have never heard of what you are claiming as news here.

My point is, it is indeed interesting to discuss such concepts, ideas and rumours, but why in a Iran AF news thread especially since they are all MOST unlikely up to almost impossible?

I see what is happening to you, you got triggered for whatever reason, posted a personal attacking post without reading the context or checking the source that I posted before, and to cover that now you are trying to label this thread as a "News" section. I wonder what happened to the "Discussions" part in the thread title "Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions?

Here is the JOURNALISTIC NEWS REPORT I was DISCUSSING, Seems fitting for the News and Discussions thread?

I did not "hear" it or create it out of thin air, I read a published report by probably the most proven reliable insider of Iranian aviation sector (like me, another harsh critic) and I merely discussed it which somehow triggered you for whatever reason.

And in the same category this proposal fits nicely since there is NO Russian afterburner-version of the said engine available (it was built in Ukraine), Russia itself struggles to develop an indigenous replacement for the regular Yak-130 without afterburner and so these reports are just „whisful-thinking“.

I doubt if you have any aviation knowledge at all. Al-222-25 is a product of RUSSIAN Salyut_Machine-Building_Association which has been manufacturing AL series engines since cold war. The engine itself is a descendent of AL-25 (later called RD-35), a Soviet product from 1970s. Ivechenko which produces it in Ukraine itself was a Soviet company so calling it a Ukrainian engine is just hilarious. Ukraine can't produce a missile engine by itself let alone a modern turbofan. All they have is inherited Soviet/Russian industry and designs.

And here is an afterburning version of it called "AL-222-25F". Now please tell me where was I wrong?

https://armyrecognition.com/news/ae...s-for-chinese-jet-trainer-hongdu-l-15-0711111

 

[ToddE]

what about fuel consumption ?

Its a turbofan so inherently better than a turbojet for range, ideal for CAP.

 

[ToddE]

YAK-130 is very potentially important for Iranian airforce power development...maybe best plane in its class globally, I repeat, in its class, but no bad even as striking option, what is already done.... new breath of fresh air for Iranian airforce craft and squads ...

I don’t know if it would be capable to clash with modern western types behind Iranian anti airforce shield, not in offensive operations of course...????

For Iran is crucial licensed domestic production of competent potent airforce, and continuing the path after that with full domestic self-reliance ....

Even YAK-130M, its combat version, has no potential role in Iranian combat aviation except for being what it is, an advanced trainer. Iran because of its large geography needs powerful 4+ generation air-superiority fighters and CAP planes. I hope leadership is far-sighted enough for the 5th generation transition because the way combat aviation is modernizing globally, even SU-35S will become obsolete by 2030. They should pressure Russia for SU-57 in a few years otherwise look for Chinese J-35.

 

[ToddE]

You guys need to let F-14 rest in peace. It served the country beautifully, but at a high maintenance cost to even its original creator (US spent $30K/hr to maintain F-14 in 90’s - if you adjust for inflation that’s over 50K/hr today).

Those airframes have been stressed for over 45 years now. Every time a pilot did heavy g force maneuvers it’s stress the frame. I don’t know how long you think titanium can last without degrading, but it’s not forever.

These planes need to mothballed by 2030’s. They can’t fly forever. And no it’s not worth reverse engineering this plane. It belongs to a different era of warfare.

If IRIAF leadership is smart they will upgrade them all to F-14AM standard so that they can fire Fakour/Maghsoud LRBVR to 150-200 KM away. Airframes should be re-worked to be pulled back to minimum-hour status and store them for any possible need in near future where they can serve the role of Russian MIG-31BM for long range CAP/interceptions and any possible ALBM integration. Maintenance cost does not matter if you are not flying them daily.

With Assads AD (however ineffective it was) gone, Israeli forces will fly for fun wherever they want over Syria, Iraq. Iran will need long range interceptors to supplement the Flankers.

 

[ToddE]

Well, maybe you didn't notice any issues on Russian engines since you don't want to see them, but that's again not the point!

The point is, NO Russian afterburning engine - be it the AI-225-25-based design or as SM-100-development - fits the Yak-130! Only the Chinese L-15B since the Yak-130's rear section is totally different!

View attachment 89922

View attachment 89923

As such, the engine you are dreaming of is not ready and Russia needs to redesign the Yak-130 ... do you really think this could be done so easily?





Sorry in case you missed my point, I was only speaking of the engine for the Yak-130, the aircraft itself won't be replaced anytime soon.

Actually nobody has ever said anything about YAK-130 being redesigned in Iran to integrate after burning AL-222-25F. You somehow manifested it on your own. The news report merely suggested AL-222 (which version?) licensed production being in talks between Iran and Russia, not for YAK-130 but for local Iranian designed jet.

 

[ToddE]

I don't really always agree with Emirzad, he has the right to his opinion and his analysis even I sometimes find far from reality in my opinion. Mr. Dinosaur almost talks about censoring opinions, calm down please, you should self-moderate because your opinion that I read is also very questionable. If I say that the Kowsar project is still active and Emirzad says the opposite, we don't have to be reprimanded for that.

Calm down Mr. Dinosaur, you seem stressed, have a herbal tea it will do you good

Please go back to your F-4"SM", AI-controlled Kowsars and what not. You are a graduate of General Salami's academy of nonsense.

 

[ToddE]

The above is a big no-no. At this moment the IRIAF do not need major surgery on the loyal wingman. Just get it completed, and on the tarmac. Two assembly lines. Highly unlikely

... (facepalm) ... .

See below thus.

Truth be told, I will be surprised if they can churn out some ~25 airframes of Qaher wingman and thats for a very simple reason, it has no role to play for Iranian doctrine. Even for point defence interception, it's too small to have any meaningful missile in its internal bays so low RCS advantage (if it has any) has to be sacrificed. Remember to land on a carrier it has to incorporate both landing gears and internal bays in its 25-30 feet existence.

I think its just a "Look, we can make a stealth wingmen" proof of capability project. Remains to be seen, what it truly is, may be I am wrong and its an actual long-awaited messiah for Iranian aviation.

Most definitely. To pursue the internal projects would be a waste of already short in supply capital, manpower and facilities, that would be better served to execute a well orchestrated SU-30SM/SU-35, MiG-29 etc., and YAK-130 acquisition plan.

Will give better reply than that of the above, next time.

Piet

Both extremities are bad. Relying solely on foriegn supply will result in a Iran-Iraq war like situation where hundreds of IIAF/IRIAF fighters ended up grounded because of lack of supply of parts. Going entirely local will be stupidity too because Iran at best can produce a light CAP fighter (if money is put in) with borderline 4.0 gen capabilities while the need is for 4+ gen air superiority monsters like SU-35S and dare I say fifth gen.

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

Please go back to your F-4"SM", AI-controlled Kowsars and what not. You are a graduate of General Salami's academy of nonsense.

The f-4 modifier is real. The incorporation of AI into the kowsar and future version is real. And you graduated in the department of the unproven. I want to see the Kowsar abandoned with the spider wire. I want pictures, video of that. And the science of wikipedia is not always true.

 

[ToddE]

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[vmro]

Even YAK-130M, its combat version, has no potential role in Iranian combat aviation except for being what it is, an advanced trainer. Iran because of its large geography needs powerful 4+ generation air-superiority fighters and CAP planes. I hope leadership is far-sighted enough for the 5th generation transition because the way combat aviation is modernizing globally, even SU-35S will become obsolete by 2030. They should pressure Russia for SU-57 in a few years otherwise look for Chinese J-35.

Tnx, I really appreciate your understanding and explanation on this forum generally...valuable to meet some like you to enlarge and enrich knowledge in "human" way...I am honest about this....cheers

 

[ToddE]

Tnx, I really appreciate your understanding and explanation on this forum generally...valuable to meet some like you to enlarge and enrich knowledge in "human" way...I am honest about this....cheers

Thanks man !

 

[muhammed45]

@Emirzad
Thanks for providing this thread with insightful comments and analysis from different angles. I have saved most of your useful infographics and i know it takes your precious time to create them.

That guy Deino never leaves positive and technical posts in this thread but strangely tries to bully everyone about what is allowed to be talked about. As if he owns the forum.

Please ignore that Int'l troll and continue with your avation related analysis and possibilities.

I wonder what happened to Qaher. They appear on TV, promise us with unveiling something new and then nothing happens. What could be the issue? Engine? Radar? Esp given that its going to be an unmanned fighter jet the communication would be a serious issue also.

I'd be gald to know your thought on that. How are they gonna communicate with Qaher drone, how can the unmanned jet recognize other flying objects and how is gonna distinguish between freidnly and enemy targets?

Its truly a hard task, Russia lost Okhotnik over UKr airspace and had to shoot it down to deny Americans access to its technology. Apparently it lost communication with base.

Russians most possibly use satellite guidance solutions and satellite based communications.

How are we gonna handle this issue? A million dollar question. I know for a fact that LPS can be used for local positioning purposes but what about those challenges related to identifying hostile targets and guiding a fighter jet that is going to be sensitive to slightest mulfuncions? Not to mention that requires strong communication devices immune to enemy EW assets.

What could be our solution to these hard challenges?