Iranian Missiles | News and Discussions

[Emirzad]

Abu Mahdi it's variant of the cruise missile from Soumar\Hoveyzeh family, not Paveh.

Paveh itself is from same family, just modern most variant with advanced guidance and Iranian turbofan. Abu-Mehdi is its AShCM version.

or we can say both are from same family.

 

[Emirzad]

there is also Ya Ali and Qadr 747

offcourse, but Ya-Ali is ALCM for F-4E/D, atleast it started as that.

I have never seen Qadr-474's pic.

 

[Persian Gulf]

offcourse, but Ya-Ali is ALCM for F-4E/D, atleast it started as that.

I have never seen Qadr-474's pic.

can you share air launched Ya Ali picture? I only saw ground launched versions from long time ago. it first appeared in Yemen as "Quds" then many years later as Ya Ali (700km range) in Iran.

they didn't show Qadr 747 but they claimed it is installed on IRGC navy ships and has 2000km range

 

[Emirzad]

1500km range is more than enough

Not if logistics are to be considered. A light and accurate (<10 m2 CEP) MaRV missile with the desired adjustments of apogee/skips can cover 1500-2500 KM domain at fast speeds is better than relying upon 20 tons solid solid-fueled missiles like Sejjil-II.

There is a reason Iran is no longer working on Sejjil-II as a missile, it has become a successful SLV or a potential ICBM though. While Skip-GV/HGV like Fattah-1/2, Kheybar Shikan are constantly being invested in.

don't think so

There were pics of a red GV coming down hot at target. They might be at the last pages of old forum's Iranian missile section.

 

[Persian Gulf]

Not if logistics are to be considered. A light and accurate (<10 m2 CEP) MaRV missile with the desired adjustments of apogee/skips can cover 1500-2500 KM domain at fast speeds is better than relying upon 20 tons solid solid-fueled missiles like Sejjil-II.

There is a reason Iran is no longer working on Sejjil-II as a missile, it has become a successful SLV or a potential ICBM though. While Skip-GV/HGV like Fattah-1/2, Kheybar Shikan are constantly being invested in.

I am saying 1500km range for Fattah with more skips is sufficient

There were pics of a red GV coming down hot at target. They might be at the last pages of old forum's Iranian missile section.

are you sure that wasn't K-4 or F-1? I am fairly sure we never saw any test of F-2.

 

[Emirzad]

can you share air launched Ya Ali picture? I only saw ground launched versions from long time ago. it first appeared in Yemen as "Quds" then many years later as Ya Ali (700km range) in Iran.

There were pics of its poster at some exhibition on which a large red CM with a chequered pattern was being dropped from an F-4E/D. I have looked and looked for that image but could not find it.

We need to be more intelligent with our images, I barely could find upgraded F-4E/D deploying Ghader AShCM.

they didn't show Qadr 747 but they claimed it is installed on IRGC navy ships and has 2000km range

yeah until we see it, we can know what it is.

 

[Emirzad]

I am saying 1500km range for Fattah with more skips is sufficient

I am fine with what you are saying, I am just adding that same missile can hit much longer ranges with skips which seems to be the reason its being taken so much interest in and may morph into long range strike option as well along with HGV carrier at 1500 KM.

are you sure that wasn't K-4 or F-1? I am fairly sure we never saw any test of F-2.

No man, it was a hot red V-shaped RV hitting bullseye. Not Fattah-1.

 

[Persian Gulf]

No man, it was a hot red V-shaped RV hitting bullseye. Not Fattah-1.

must be Khorramshahr or some CGI

 

[Emirzad]

must be Khorramshahr or some CGI

I will try to find it, maybe I am wrong.

 

[Immortals]

do we?

Yes, even the Noor missile is 1.4 Mach in terminal phase. However, when you are sub sonic in flight it allows modern enemy radars to prepare defenses and targeting systems for point interception reducing the effectiveness of the increased terminal speed.

there is also Ya Ali and Qadr 747

I haven’t seen any proof of Ya Ali existing outside of prototype.

 

[Persian Gulf]

Yes, even the Noor missile is 1.4 Mach in terminal phase. However, when you are sub sonic in flight it allows modern enemy radars to prepare defenses and targeting systems for point interception reducing the effectiveness of the increased terminal speed.

where do you get 1.4 mach from? I don't think these are supersonic even in terminal phase

I haven’t seen any proof of Ya Ali existing outside of prototype.

they showed it many times

 

[tsunset]

Yes, even the Noor missile is 1.4 Mach in terminal phase. However, when you are sub sonic in flight it allows modern enemy radars to prepare defenses and targeting systems for point interception reducing the effectiveness of the increased terminal speed.



I haven’t seen any proof of Ya Ali existing outside of prototype.

Ya-Ali is the red CM also (reportedly) used in 2019 oil attack

 

[Immortals]

where do you get 1.4 mach from? I don't think these are supersonic even in terminal phase


they showed it many times

View attachment 66416

I am in Iran don’t have access to my sources but even Wikipedia says it. Even old cruise missiles from Iran-Iraq had capability to go supersonic in terminal. I remember reading this over years.

Noor (missile) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Feel free to fact check me, I could be wrong. But I distinctly remember reading anti ship CMs even if sub sonic have ability to go supersonic in last <100 meters of flight especially those that do a pitch up attack.

 

[Immortals]

Not what I was saying. This was discussed back when Fattah-1 was unvieled that if we reduce the skipping maneuvers of Fattah-1/2 and let it touch higher apogee instead of quasi BM trajectory then based upon its high burnout velocity, the missile just as a MaRV-MRBM will touch roughly ~2200-2500 KM which itself is a marvel considering how small this weapon is and how dead accurate. This allows it to replace Sejjil-II, the current Iranian Solid fueled MRBM/IRBM with 2500+ KM range.

Now if we make a compromise between no. of skips and range then it will still be capable of hitting MRBM domain targets at high speed. with more skips/glides added it will have the KE to enter than hypersonic zone but range will be reduced to 1500 KM.

The point is, this weapon family of Kheybar Shikan/Fattah can be just dead accurate MaRV-MRBMs or can be HGV for speed but with shorter range. Fattah-2 HGV has been tested, someone please pull out some pics of the red-HGV test.

Sejjil family morphed into multistaged solid-fueled SLVs or potential ICBMs at the right time.

Liquid fueled family is a different story altogether.

Is F-1 a quasi BM(ie doesnt leave earth’s highest atmosphere layers)?

My interpretation is F-1 is still exo atmospheric by default and the engine in the warhead is what limits the number of skip. I remember Patrames saying engine has enough fuel for 1-2 small deviations to confuse Arrow-3 mid course trajectory interception. The engine kicks in after the dive to cause the skip (pull up).

The thinking was that the difference between F-1 and F-2 is the F-2 can do this naturally using its body shape (fined wedge design) where as F-1 still uses traditional warhead design hence need for small engine in RV stage to achieve any deviations. Hence why F-2 is considered a true HGV where as F-1 is merely a BM that has hypersonic capability with some limited maneuverability.

I think that’s what also is the biggest limiter for F-1 speed vs F-2 speed, ie RV shape. I don’t dispute you could get F-1 speed higher, but it has to answer the laws of physics and forces acting upon it to not break apart due to its metallurgy construction and heat shield construction as friction increases the more you enter earth’s densest atmospheric layers.

I’m also not convinced F-1 and Keibar Sheykan-2 are not the same Missile with a slight variation (ie version A vs version B). With Iran you never know with these naming conventions.