Iranian Navy | News and Discussions

[Piet]

It is clear that Iran will show new surprise weapons, it is predictable but I say that one of the big surprises will come from combat aviation.

Thank goodness. At last.

Piet

 

[Flotilla]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1821865871863636142

Great news.

There is two big families of anti-ship cruise missiles;

Western navies type. Based mainly in stealth subsonic cruise missiles LRASM/NSM style.

An Eastern long range supersonic/hypersonic missiles; like P270 family or high supersonic ones like Bastion-P/Brahmos family.

Quadrangular section of the container is suggesting something "thicker" than a usual antiship missiles. Also news dropped talking about "untrackable" is suggesting to me that it could be a stealth cruise missile, probably subsonic also.

Supersonic missiles are always easier to track due to use of heat resistant metal alloys (check KH-31 parts). High temperature of supersonic missiles engines make them also easier to track via IR seekers (Frech VL Mica recently shoot down easily some Yemeni UAV because of their excellent IR seekers).

So I would bet and prefer a long range subsonic stealth cruise missile. Preferably with 2 or 3 differents seekers (inertial, final active radar seeker, Home on jam capability and small IR seeker like Taurus/Scalp). And IMO those kind of missiles are more advanced than just a supersonic missile.

 

[muhammed45]

Great news.

There is two big families of anti-ship cruise missiles;

Western navies type. Based mainly in stealth subsonic cruise missiles LRASM/NSM style.

An Eastern long range supersonic/hypersonic missiles; like P270 family or high supersonic ones like Bastion-P/Brahmos family.

Quadrangular section of the container is suggesting something "thicker" than a usual antiship missiles. Also news dropped talking about "untrackable" is suggesting to me that it could be a stealth cruise missile, probably subsonic also.

Supersonic missiles are always easier to track due to use of heat resistant metal alloys (check KH-31 parts). High temperature of supersonic missiles engines make them also easier to track via IR seekers (Frech VL Mica recently shoot down easily some Yemeni UAV because of their excellent IR seekers).

So I would bet and prefer a long range subsonic stealth cruise missile. Preferably with 2 or 3 differents seekers (inertial, final active radar seeker, Home on jam capability and small IR seeker like Taurus/Scalp). And IMO those kind of missiles are more advanced than just a supersonic missile.

When they say untrackable, supposedly they mean it cannot be intercepted. Keyword interception.

According to OSIN, from total 704 cruise missiles of KH-55-555-101 family 636 missiles were intercepted by Ukrainian air defense systems.

On the other hand, from total number of KH-22-32 family of Russian cruise missiles that were fired, non of them were intercepted by Ukrainians. This cruise missile has speed of almost 4 mach. So let me disagree with your theory. You can see those missiles using passive air defense systems but you cannot intercept them for your own mentioned reason.

Therefore my bet is on a supersonic or hypersonic anti ship cruise missile.

 

[Flames In The Desert]

 

[Eşbah]

What's the purpose of this ship?

 

[Persian Gulf]

What's the purpose of this ship?

it is a commercial ship repurposed by the IRGC to be a drone carrier

 

[wudangmaster]

 

[Flotilla]

I would like to know how the hell will IRGCN escort this ship in that congested neighborhood... Now the IRIN just have 2 operative Mowj corvettes, and Soleimani class corvettes are not suitable in open high seas (specially atlantic) and their radar equipment are too close to water surface to allow a comprehensive electronic horizon for a 360 aerial surveillance around that carrier.

But in the other hand IRGCN must decide which drones will be re-designed for operating in her deck. It is mandatory a new and more powerful engine and a new wing to allow a high lift of all airframe and a much more powerful landing gear for absorbing the high duty carrier aerial cicles. All makes conventional Shahed 129 unsuitable for operating in her deck.

At this point maybe IRGCN has any plans to reach a navalised version of Shahed 149 Gaza with reinforced landing gear, airframe and big slats and flaps. So, please be attentive with governmental media... Anything new must be coming.

 

[sahureka2]

I would like to know how the hell will IRGCN escort this ship in that congested neighborhood... Now the IRIN just have 2 operative Mowj corvettes, and Soleimani class corvettes are not suitable in open high seas (specially atlantic) and their radar equipment are too close to water surface to allow a comprehensive electronic horizon for a 360 aerial surveillance around that carrier.

But in the other hand IRGCN must decide which drones will be re-designed for operating in her deck. It is mandatory a new and more powerful engine and a new wing to allow a high lift of all airframe and a much more powerful landing gear for absorbing the high duty carrier aerial cicles. All makes conventional Shahed 129 unsuitable for operating in her deck.

At this point maybe IRGCN has any plans to reach a navalised version of Shahed 149 Gaza with reinforced landing gear, airframe and big slats and flaps. So, please be attentive with governmental media... Anything new must be coming.

I think it will take some time before the Martyr Bagheri becomes operational.
First it will have to be completed, then sea trials will be carried out and both the crew assigned to the ship and the personnel assigned to the air component on board (drones) will be trained.
After all the crew and specialists have been trained for the missions at sea, they will have to carry out take-off and landing tests with drones, drones of which at the moment it is not known what model and size they will be.
Time that will allow the frigates currently under maintenance to return to service... but it is worth remembering that the Martyr Bagheri will not be part of the IRIN fleet but of the IRGC, so unless there are collaborations during missions on the high seas with the IRIN, the IRGC having designed this type of naval unit will have already planned how to use it.
For comparison, it would be interesting to know if "Shahid Mahdavi", recently returned home after a 39-day mission that took her across the equator and close to the US base in Diego Garcia, was escorted by any other military unit of the IRGC or IRIN.

 

[Immortals]

I would like to know how the hell will IRGCN escort this ship in that congested neighborhood... Now the IRIN just have 2 operative Mowj corvettes, and Soleimani class corvettes are not suitable in open high seas (specially atlantic) and their radar equipment are too close to water surface to allow a comprehensive electronic horizon for a 360 aerial surveillance around that carrier.

But in the other hand IRGCN must decide which drones will be re-designed for operating in her deck. It is mandatory a new and more powerful engine and a new wing to allow a high lift of all airframe and a much more powerful landing gear for absorbing the high duty carrier aerial cicles. All makes conventional Shahed 129 unsuitable for operating in her deck.

At this point maybe IRGCN has any plans to reach a navalised version of Shahed 149 Gaza with reinforced landing gear, airframe and big slats and flaps. So, please be attentive with governmental media... Anything new must be coming.

Protect it from whom?

It will have missiles both BM/CM, likely automatic CWIS lining the deck for 360 coverage against CMs and drones. It will likely have a long range air defense system and short range etc.

Thus there is no ship in Iran’s arsenal that can protect that ship better than it can protect itself.And Iran assumes it will be in piece time for foreseeable future.

No one seriously thinks that Drone ship will stay afloat if Iran and US are at war. Even if Iran had 10x the Navy it has today it still couldn’t defend that ship from a US attack

A few F-22’s and F-35s launching stand-off anti ship missiles would cripple it.

The only Navy that can go toe to toe with US Navy is Chinese Navy. Not even Russian Navy can face off against the US any longer.

 

[Emirzad]

Such large surface fleet vessels are less useful than a larger submarine force. What happened to Fateh-II/III ... or Besat class?

 

[jauk]

I would like to know how the hell will IRGCN escort this ship in that congested neighborhood... Now the IRIN just have 2 operative Mowj corvettes, and Soleimani class corvettes are not suitable in open high seas (specially atlantic) and their radar equipment are too close to water surface to allow a comprehensive electronic horizon for a 360 aerial surveillance around that carrier.

But in the other hand IRGCN must decide which drones will be re-designed for operating in her deck. It is mandatory a new and more powerful engine and a new wing to allow a high lift of all airframe and a much more powerful landing gear for absorbing the high duty carrier aerial cicles. All makes conventional Shahed 129 unsuitable for operating in her deck.

At this point maybe IRGCN has any plans to reach a navalised version of Shahed 149 Gaza with reinforced landing gear, airframe and big slats and flaps. So, please be attentive with governmental media... Anything new must be coming.

They don’t have a plan. They just built it to show off. You may want to bring your concerns to management. Perhaps you’re due for a complimentary meal.

Otherwise, the burden is on you to show off your intellect and explain ’how the hell’ they would accomplish this.

 

[Flotilla]

After all the crew and specialists have been trained for the missions at sea, they will have to carry out take-off and landing tests with drones, drones of which at the moment it is not known what model and size they will be.

Agreed. It will take years to create and operate a carrier wing of recoverable drones in this ship.

Time that will allow the frigates currently under maintenance to return to service... but it is worth remembering that the Martyr Bagheri will not be part of the IRIN fleet but of the IRGC, so unless there are collaborations during missions on the high seas with the IRIN, the IRGC having designed this type of naval unit will have already planned how to use it.

This is the most intriguing issue right now for me. We are talking about a ship capable of operating of a number of expensive navalised drones, a oceanic seaworthy ship capable of conducting missions in the middle of the ocean with MALE class UAVs. You need a handful and meaningful number of escort ships. And for that reason the only avaiable ships capable of operating in high seas are Mowj, Dena and ...Sahand (the last one will stay at least 1,5 years in dry dock). Other options are not avaiable right now but can be in two or three years be ready for that duty. I am thinking in a enlarged version of Nasser class with 8 cell VLS a search radar and fire control radar to give some basic air protection to the flotilla.

Protect it from whom?

Air and submarine threats. All of us know the very limited capability of IRIN assets in modern air warfare scenarios. IRGCN seems far better positioned for this duties (AAW) with their flamant Soleimani class equiped with short range or Medium range VLS missiles. While you can not put the Shahed Bagheri in front of a US Navy CSG (all IRGCN/IRIN fleet would be sunk in minutes), you need a basic AAW protection from ASW planes like P8 poseidon and MQ4 triton or even SH60R ASW helicopters.

They don’t have a plan. They just built it to show off. You may want to bring your concerns to management. Perhaps you’re due for a complimentary meal.

Bagheri can be useful. She could be capable of operate in high seas MALEs for maritime surveillance, interdiction, merchant warfare and even CAS in non contested areas of Yemen or Makran coast if required. Bagheri could even deploy some MALE CAP patrols over a convoy for protecting SLOCs of oil and non oil exports to allied nations like Venezuela or North Korea. Keeping away OPVs or even small inflatable boarding special US operations teams for aboarding merchant ships.

Bagheri it is on its own a shift in the traditional IRGCN doctrine of PG shallow waters (brown) missions. the new Soleimani class was a step forward with limited oceanic capabilities, but Shahed Bagheri means a open rupture of the old naval IRGCN doctrine, and a challenge for the US Navy and even GCC countries.
Details about the completion, air-wing and operation remains murky. But you cannot reject her in advance. IRGCN surprised us one year ago with Soleimaini class and even if this concept of drone carrier finally fails, very useful information about high seas air operation can be extracted.

There is a lot of military operations in "grey zone" that are not a total naval war as you have seen in WWII films or documentaries. Bagheri can fulfill a lot of those medium duty military missions.

 

[jauk]

Agreed. It will take years to create and operate a carrier wing of recoverable drones in this ship.

This is the most intriguing issue right now for me. We are talking about a ship capable of operating of a number of expensive navalised drones, a oceanic seaworthy ship capable of conducting missions in the middle of the ocean with MALE class UAVs. You need a handful and meaningful number of escort ships. And for that reason the only avaiable ships capable of operating in high seas are Mowj, Dena and ...Sahand (the last one will stay at least 1,5 years in dry dock). Other options are not avaiable right now but can be in two or three years be ready for that duty. I am thinking in a enlarged version of Nasser class with 8 cell VLS a search radar and fire control radar to give some basic air protection to the flotilla.


Air and submarine threats. All of us know the very limited capability of IRIN assets in modern air warfare scenarios. IRGCN seems far better positioned for this duties (AAW) with their flamant Soleimani class equiped with short range or Medium range VLS missiles. While you can not put the Shahed Bagheri in front of a US Navy CSG (all IRGCN/IRIN fleet would be sunk in minutes), you need a basic AAW protection from ASW planes like P8 poseidon and MQ4 triton or even SH60R ASW helicopters.


Bagheri can be useful. She could be capable of operate in high seas MALEs for maritime surveillance, interdiction, merchant warfare and even CAS in non contested areas of Yemen or Makran coast if required. Bagheri could even deploy some MALE CAP patrols over a convoy for protecting SLOCs of oil and non oil exports to allied nations like Venezuela or North Korea. Keeping away OPVs or even small inflatable boarding special US operations teams for aboarding merchant ships.

Bagheri it is on its own a shift in the traditional IRGCN doctrine of PG shallow waters (brown) missions. the new Soleimani class was a step forward with limited oceanic capabilities, but Shahed Bagheri means a open rupture of the old naval IRGCN doctrine, and a challenge for the US Navy and even GCC countries.
Details about the completion, air-wing and operation remains murky. But you cannot reject her in advance. IRGCN surprised us one year ago with Soleimaini class and even if this concept of drone carrier finally fails, very useful information about high seas air operation can be extracted.

There is a lot of military operations in "grey zone" that are not a total naval war as you have seen in WWII films or documentaries. Bagheri can fulfill a lot of those medium duty military missions.

There you go. More post useful no?

 

[alireza]

Shahid Bagheri for protecting commerical vessels off Yemen and anti piracy missions seems not the most wise use of funds. Just my thoughts, I could be wrong. But wouldn't all this money and resources be better spent on equipping current vessels with more SAM coverage? Making a navalized version of Majid AD08 but with longer coverage kind of like a navalized Crotale? So many of the Sina Class and Tondar Class FAC could replace their ZU23 or 40mm AAA with Navalized Majid like systems for better protection. Even the Zufighar Anti Air Speed boat was unveiled but they've shown only one. They could use many of those to protect current FAC from Apache strikes etc. Maybe even extend the range out a bit. I just think Shahid Bagheri seems more for show and isn't all that game changing in any way. Iran needs SAM coverage for their naval assets. Open to hearing anyone's thoughts.