Israeli missile defences (deployed) - assessment and strategies

[KingQamaR]

Israel can do jamming on GNSS signals over all their territory.

How could a Iran long range missile hit something with accuracy in that scenario?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-and-lebanese-users-of-dating-apps-are-made-strange-bedfellows-by-war-baffled-gps/

Iran can use Russian Glonas or the Chinese Beido. GPS is not the only means available.

 

[PakFactor]

But what guidance method? We are talking about thousand miles.

How can know drones where the hell they are?

GNSS wont be available in Israel in war time.

I'm sure there some terrain mapping features, if GPS goes out.

 

[BHAN85]

Iran can use Russian Glonas or the Chinese Beido. GPS is not the only means available.

But Israel can always do jamming to do those systems in Israeli territory.

Jamming any GNSS is easy, the signal in ground is always weak.

 

[BHAN85]

I'm sure there some terrain mapping features, if GPS goes out.

when has Iran proved have such caps?

Facts: Iran Shaheds use GNSS receiver to guidance, in a SDR board. Ukranians have documentated very well.

 

[PakFactor]

when has Iran proved have such caps?

Facts: Iran Shaheds use GNSS receiver to guidance, in a SDR board. Ukranians have documentated very well.

.. I don't know, was hopping they would have a back up. But I guess not.

 

[mulj]

In conclusion even with american help it would be easy for Iran to saturate zionists defence with couple of hundred obsolete BM and couple of thousands rockets from Hezbolah and gain operational freedom to pick targets at will.
Only concern for Iran in that case what kind of retaliation they will have to cope with.
On the other hand it seems that zionsits can defend successfully from limited and one time attack by Iran. Now it is matter of decision if Iran wants to punch them hard to avenge their losses or "symbolic" retaliation whIch will not hurt zios physically. Not easy decision as both carry risks for iranian leadership.

 

[mulj]

when has Iran proved have such caps?

Facts: Iran Shaheds use GNSS receiver to guidance, in a SDR board. Ukranians have documentated very well.

What ever this means

https://twitter.com/x/status/1779011737884209614

 

[mangekyo]

What ever this means

https://twitter.com/x/status/1779011737884209614

Gyroscopes measure angular velocity. He's talking about an IMU. (Combination of gyroscope and accelerometer) But such a guidance system would have terrible accuracy without an onboard MEMS for AHRS or some other form of external reference.

 

[BHAN85]

What ever this means

https://twitter.com/x/status/1779011737884209614

Inertial guidance can't work with accuracy over thousands miles.

 

[UKBengali]

Inertial guidance can't work with accuracy over thousands miles.

It won't have to as it will use satellite navigation for most of the journey and only resort to INS when over territory that has no GPS signal.

Also when there is no GPS signal, then inertial guidance can be combined with terrain guidance to give pretty much GPS accuracy. In essence the terrain guidance takes over from GPS at that point.

 

[BHAN85]

Gyroscopes measure angular velocity. He's talking about an IMU. (Combination of gyroscope and accelerometer) But such a guidance system would have terrible accuracy without an onboard MEMS for AHRS or some other form of external reference.

AHRS take as source data mag, acc, and gyr. After 1,000 mi there is a inevitable error added.

 

[mulj]

Inertial guidance can't work with accuracy over thousands miles.

They are probably aware of it and have their own solution beside gps, at minimum tercom system alike in tomahawk era which is immune for gps jamming,

 

[BHAN85]

It won't have to as it will use satellite navigation for most of the journey and only resort to INS when over territory that has no GPS signal.

Also when there is no GPS signal, then inertial guidance can be combined with terrain guidance to give pretty much GPS accuracy. In essence the terrain guidance takes over from GPS at that point.

Yes, what you say can work, but Iran has never proved to have terrain guidance.

 

[BHAN85]

They are probably aware of it and have their own solution beside gps.

Of course they know, the question is what is that solution?

Shaheds in Ukraine use common GNSS signals (Glonass, GPS).

 

[Immortals]

But such a guidance system would have terrible accuracy without an onboard MEMS for AHRS or some other form of external reference.

Incorrect

You are referencing [mechanical] gyroscopes from 1990’s SCUD or the gyroscope in your iPhones (consumer product)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1773390330211000650

This chart will show you some open source estimates of various forms of military grade gyroscope. Not every gyroscope is created equal even those within the same type class. Obviously real numbers are highly classified.

It’s wildly known that the problem with gyroscopes is the vibration that it undergoes during flight. Thus the general rule of thumb was the longer a missile travels the more vibrations impact the gyroscope and thus eventually weaken its accuracy. Advancements in technology have helped to mitigate this to a great extent.

Laser (IFOG) based military grade gyroscopes retain powerful accuracy and celestial based gyroscopes are the crème de le creme of gyscropes. Iran mastered a break thru manufacturing this class gyroscopes in last decade which reduced CEP from 250 meters down to 10-20 meters. You can see from the image I posted that the gyroscopes used K-4, Keyibar, Fatah, etc have improved by a factor of 10 against early SCUD models. The ones used in Qiam/Emad/Ghadr (lasted gen Shahab-3) are a bit more inaccurate but still vastly improved vs their early 2000’s predecessors.

At the end of the day some Iranian missiles have higher grade gyros vs others. It’s a cost factor that comes into play with this as well as the more advanced [accurate] the gyroscope the more costly it becomes.

Not to mention GPS jamming works on objects flying between 100-50,000 ft altitude. A BM re-entering Israel’s atmosphere at Mach 7 is not running GPS/GLNSS calculations anymore at terminal velocity. Those would have been done mid flight.

Thus GPS jamming is mostly for CMs and drones or low trajectory rockets/artillery. Russia has used it to great success against HIMARS in Ukraine.