J-31 to be inducted soon| Pilot training reportedly in progress

[SteppeWolff]

nahi yaar!......just watching how legacy weapons are miserably failing on the modern battlefield.

Iss waqat I will downright refuse to sit in a tank and go charging at an enemy strong point.....I don't care how much money you willing to put on da table.

Everything has its countermeasures, unmanned platforms would get fried by EM too as we are seeing in Ukraine.

 

[FuturePAF]

Yes for sure it will, but only after the J-35 is in production and even this may not happen before 2026/27. So any such claims, the PAF might get its first serial aircraft in late 2026 are almost Indian-like claims, the Tejas Mk.2 will be superior to the F-16 Block 70 or J-10C!




Indeed, this would require a "a fairly large PAF contingent present both providing requirements and in some cases being assigned under Mr Yang’s various teams" at SAC!

The problem however - and IMO the point - is, in contrast to the JF-17's development, it was always a co-development product such posts were never made, there was never any rumour about a co-development, a Pakistani-cooperation at SAC.
The "J-31" was always portrayed as a privately-founded product (IMO also wrong, since in China no manufactor can invest Billions of $$$ do develop privately a high-end fighter product, this must always have been sanctioned by the PLA & the CMC).

As such - and again I'm pretty sure the usual suspects will explain it that way - to think there was since 2015/16 a secret cooperation agreement with Pakistan to bring the J-31 into action by late 2026 without any such rumour before is simply impossible.

But let's wait and see ... I'm pretty sure in November at Zhuhai we will learn more.

It only makes sense that the PAF would wait till the J-35 is operational first and equipped with satisfactory engines. J-35 will definitely get priority, so seeing the J-31 delivered early would make us think we are getting a less refined product. Better to wait for the J-35 to be fully developed and the design tested in real world conditions and then refined some more, before acquiring it. Similar to how the PAF J-10CE were procured; decent Chinese engine and all the avionics/radar/electronics the PAF was hoping to get.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Per my info it is that way ..

View attachment 45198

I got the dates with question marks from your previous table.

If the first flight did take place in September 2023 for J-31, it could be possible there might be 2 other prototypes already built for static load and flight testing.

I'm basing my assumptions on how quickly the first 3 JF-17 prototypes were built and put to tests. Totally guess work at this point.

31-05-2003 PT-01 - Flight Performance Prototype

FC-1 / Super-7 Designation​

• 31-May-2003 - Roll Out
• 27-June-2003 - Low Speed Taxiing
• 25-Aug-2003 - 2 Maiden Flights

JF-17 Thunder Designation​

• 2-Sept-2003 - Official Maiden Flight with JF-17 Thunder markings

??-??-2003 PT-02 - Static Load Test Prototype
09-04-2004 PT-03 - Flight Performance Prototype

 

[Deino]

I got the dates with question marks from your previous table.

If the first flight did take place in September 2023 for J-31, it could be possible there might be 2 other prototypes already built for static load and flight testing.

I'm basing my assumptions on how quickly the first 3 JF-17 prototypes were built and put to tests. Totally guess work at this point.

31-05-2003 PT-01 - Flight Performance Prototype

FC-1 / Super-7 Designation​

• 31-May-2003 - Roll Out
• 27-June-2003 - Low Speed Taxiing
• 25-Aug-2003 - 2 Maiden Flights
  

JF-17 Thunder Designation​

• 2-Sept-2003 - Official Maiden Flight with JF-17 Thunder markings

??-??-2003 PT-02 - Static Load Test Prototype
09-04-2004 PT-03 - Flight Performance Prototype

Good point, but my argument against this theory is, we haven't seen any new additional J-31 or J-35 prototype at SAC, we haven't heard any rumours from the Chinese community which is usually quite quick with such reports and even more not shy to post whatever happens.

So, a second one for static testing is indeed likely and a second flying one aka third J-31 is surely also likely since September 2023 but we have no report yet, that an additional one flew.

 

[Lulldapull]

it is possible that the army has considered this possibility as well, and the tank will not be operating in an isolated environment. it is possible that the tank will be supported by drones of our own and low-level mobile air defense systems to counter any attack.

Bhai all has been tried in Ukraine. Leopard tank easily destroyed by roosi drones. IDF planes don't enter Syria for fear of being downed. Israel launches subsonic CM's from over the mediterranian sea. Hoosi baghi downing $30 million dollar MQ-9's every week. Dozens of sea freighters have been hit by Hoosi baghi with ballistic missiles and several have been sunk. US airstrikes on hoosi Baghi do nothing. Likewise IDF airstrikes in Hezb/ Syria accomplish nothing.

 

[Lulldapull]

It's here to stay for foreseeable future, 6th generation NGAD is a manned platform too supported intelligent by unmanned aircrafts, a man in the loop is necessary

I bet you money that within the end of this decade, most legacy weaponry will be supplanted if not replaced by new generation weaponry. Armor to bhai already seems destined for the scrap heap. F-sola wont last 2 minutes over eastern Ukraine today.

Warplanes are increasingly becoming CM carriers in contested/ defended airspace. Attack Choppas have already quit flying over Ukraine.

 

[S.Y.A]

Bhai all has been tried in Ukraine. Leopard tank easily destroyed by roosi drones. IDF planes don't enter Syria for fear of being downed. Israel launches subsonic CM's from over the mediterranian sea. Hoosi baghi downing $30 million dollar MQ-9's every week. Dozens of sea freighters have been hit by Hoosi baghi with ballistic missiles and several have been sunk. US airstrikes on hoosi Baghi do nothing. Likewise IDF airstrikes in Hezb/ Syria accomplish nothing.

you do realize that you are negating your first point with your second point?

point 1: drones are good, they destroyed a tank.
point 2: drones are bad, someone downed a drone.

now, not only do we have drones and tanks, we also have CMs and ballistic missiles, and proper air-def systems. so does india. the one who uses these technologies properly will come out on top.

 

[SteppeWolff]

Armor to bhai already seems destined for the scrap heap

How would you break through enemy fortifications then and hold it if you aren't using tanks and supported infantry?

F-sola wont last 2 minutes over eastern Ukraine today

Most drones don't too, they get fried thanks to electromagnetic warfare.

Attack Choppas have already quit flying over Ukraine.

??
Russian Ka 52s suffered loses at start due to outdated tactics and later became hell for Ukrainians, Ukrainian counter offensive got steamrolled due to Ka 52s and Mi 28s hunting their assets.

 

[Lulldapull]

you do realize that you are negating your first point with your second point?

point 1: drones are good, they destroyed a tank.
point 2: drones are bad, someone downed a drone.

now, not only do we have drones and tanks, we also have CMs and ballistic missiles, and proper air-def systems. so does india. the one who uses these technologies properly will come out on top.

These particular MQ-9/ CH-4/ 5/ WingLoong/ Shahed/ Mohajir/ Akinchhi/ Bayraftar types of UCAV's are vulnerable.

Suicide drones/ Stealthy cruise missiles are able to penetrate defenses.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

India does not need to purchase 5th Generation fighter from another country because they are making their own Jet. By the time PAF will be inducting two Platforms of 5th Generation, India will be able to complete detailed analysis of 5th Generation. Then it will be just matter of few decades to make a new one

 

[Lulldapull]

How would you break through enemy fortifications then and hold it if you aren't using tanks and supported infantry?

Most drones don't too, they get fried thanks to electromagnetic warfare.

??
Russian Ka 52s suffered loses at start due to outdated tactics and later became hell for Ukrainians, Ukrainian counter offensive got steamrolled due to Ka 52s and Mi 28s hunting their assets.

Russians using small hunter killer rapid insertion teams with ATGMs backed by their guided artillery. That has been their key. Drawing Ukrainians into these kill zones. Recently they've tried using their newly developed winged kits fora JDAM smart bomb. Launched from standoff range.

Attack Helios are not being used much anymore. More than a 100 have been downed. Most Shahed-136 types are immune to EM. They use pre-programmed Glonass guidance, or in case of ECM/ jamming, they switch to INS.

 

[SteppeWolff]

Russians using small hunter killer rapid insertion teams with ATGMs backed by their guided artillery.

Cause they are too incompetent for combined arms warfare.

 

[Lulldapull]

Cause they are too incompetent for combined arms warfare.

Oh bhai 100 say zyada choppa are gone! 35 Su-24/25 gone! 30 k qareeb Su-27/30/35 gone! 2000 Tanks T-72/ 90 and probably double that assorted APC's are also gone plus an estimated 50k Russian troop deaths (admitted) and many times that number injured casualties. And Ukrainian losses are many times these Russian losses, including 500k troops killed.......whole country reduced to rubble. I believe this is the fourth time Uki's have raised a new army. Russia is fighting NATO.

 

[S.Y.A]

Suicide drones/ Stealthy cruise missiles are able to penetrate defenses.

what about point defense systems, like the RAMs and CIWS employed by the navies worldwide?

if a low-level radar can observe and track such systems, maybe the oerlikon type AA guns and FM90 missiles, that the PA has, can counter these threats...

 

[S.Y.A]

they switch to INS.

Inertial navigation systems drift and are inaccurate if pin-point accuracy is required. maybe good for warheads that affect a large area. not so much for targeting radars, AD systems or tanks.