No JF-17 B3 with PL-15 Air to Air Missile (yet)

[White and Green with M/S]

Kind of a Moot point because missile ranges don’t work like that, they aren’t fixed numbers. I’m not sure why and how maximum hypothetical range under unknown conditions became an indicator for missile performance, because they tell you nearly nothing about the missiles effectiveness or performance.

Under many conditions the PL-15 won’t even go 150KM, let alone 200, in some conditions the PL-15E might even make it past 170KM. Nobody is going to engage at ranges like that anyways, what matters is how well it performs in the ranges where an engagement is most likely, say, 70-110KM. And in these ranges, I doubt PL-15E is that much of a downgrade from the Chinese domestic version.

Even an AIM120C5 could be a deadlier and more effective missile than a PL15 if it does a better job tracking and engaging in the range it does have, even if it doesn’t go as far as 200KM. A Prius can go a 1000KM in a full tank, a Ferrari can go maybe 400, but nobody is going to argue that the Prius is the better car, the range debate for missiles is honestly akin to that sometimes, I’m not saying the PL-15 is in any shape better than our old AMRAAMs, I just wish the discussion was not about pure hypothetical range and instead about actual missile performance.

There’s a good chance that PAF does in fact have tricks up its sleeves and keeps small stocks of better weaponry hidden in case it’s ever needed, and in the case of small scale skirmishes like swift retort this can be a major benefit. However in a full scale war what you have more of is what matters, a small stock of PL-15s won’t really be the deciding factor in that case, it would be the standard equipment (PL-15Es) that PAF would have in larger numbers. I’m sure PAF can manage its assets well but when in most cases you can’t pre-plan for an attack and are carrying your standard load-out instead of the very best available, you better hope your standard is up to par and not what you have back at base.

Luckily for us, smaller scale skirmishes are far more likely these days than an all out war, and PAF has a habit of coming out on top in those.​

Do you know what is NEZ and F-pole of the BVR missiles?

 

[Ali_Baba]

Several sources claim that PAF 15s are not E versions.

Except ALL the pictures of J10CE's PL15s in PAF CLEARLY say PL15E on the markings on the missles ... but - of course, please carry on with "fantasy making" that flys against know facts..

 

[Lion]

For JF17 BLK III yes I agree with you, but I doubt that our J10C is using limited range version of PL15E

What makes you think that?

 

[Lion]

Do you know what is NEZ and F-pole of the BVR missiles?

In general, yes, for these specific missiles, no, that’s classified stuff. Maximum range is just one of the many factors that affect these parameters, and I’d say it’s not even the most important one.

 

[Oscar]

In general, yes, for these specific missiles, no, that’s classified stuff. Maximum range is just one of the many factors that affect these parameters, and I’d say it’s not even the most important one

The amount of subjectivity in both Max range and NEZ is lost on most people.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

What makes you think that?

Better ranged AESA than block III JF-17, which it's AESA has enough range to fire PL15 to its max range, whereas block III has limited range AESA ( 170 km against 5m2 targets)

 

[Lion]

Better ranged AESA than block III JF-17, which it's AESA has enough range to fire PL15 to its max range, whereas block III has limited range AESA ( 170 km against 5m2 targets)

And how is that any proof of PAF using PL15 with J-10C?

 

[Fatman17]

No for JF17 BLK III we have PL15E which has a range of 145 km, maybe our J10C is using standard PL15 with the range of 200 km that currently PLAAF using

Can anybody confirm or deny that we are using standard PL15 with a range of 200 km on our J10C just like PLAAF using?or we are using export version of PL15 (range 145 km) on our J10C?

China always has Export versions for sales

 

[White and Green with M/S]

And how is that any proof of PAF using PL15 with J-10C?

Rumors we have a small batch of PL15 after post Feb 2019 skirmish

 

[Lion]

Rumors we have a small batch of PL15 after post Feb 2019 skirmish

Rumors are not proof. I don’t doubt PAF doesn’t display the best weaponry it has but as I said before, small batches of weaponry are not really relevant in the case of an all out war, in that case your standard equipment is the only one that matters, and even for smaller skirmishes, unless it’s a retaliatory strike like Swift retort, your regular CAP aircraft won’t be carrying anything but the standard equipment.
That’s all the say, having a small batch of PL15 or any other special weaponry isn’t really a big force multiplier or capability as one might imagine, that is if the rumors are true at all, and I don’t believe they aren’t, just that they’re overhyped.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Well from the PAF point of view " کبھی خوشبو لاکر آءو نا " to find out if we have pl 15 or not n if we do then which version it is.....also to find out the actual tracking/seeking n targeting range of jf 17 block III aesa radar

 

[Oscar]

Rumors are not proof. I don’t doubt PAF doesn’t display the best weaponry it has but as I said before, small batches of weaponry are not really relevant in the case of an all out war, in that case your standard equipment is the only one that matters, and even for smaller skirmishes, unless it’s a retaliatory strike like Swift retort, your regular CAP aircraft won’t be carrying anything but the standard equipment.
That’s all the say, having a small batch of PL15 or any other special weaponry isn’t really a big force multiplier or capability as one might imagine, that is if the rumors are true at all, and I don’t believe they aren’t, just that they’re overhyped.

Regardless of the rumors of the token PL-15s vs the Es and what those Es are or not - what the PAF has in distribution of assets and what it faces is generally adequate in providing the minimum edge.

 

[warbird]

I think JF-17 Block-III has a E version (limited AESAs range 170 km) whereas our J10C has standard PLAAF PL15 with a 200 km in range better AESA range, and remember bro there were several rumors on old PDF that we have standard PLAAF version of PL15 for our JF17 after post feb 2019 skirmish

No more details.

@Lion range is just one factor. I would assume PL15 should provide better range at mid to lower altitude.

 

[CynicalPakistaniCritic]

I used to get excited about getting the latest PL-15 missiles and the kinetic edge it provided but there is nothing exciting about it.

Only exciting thing is when you have an indigenous defence industry which Pakistan has nothing that can truly be respected.

You can continue buying Chinese products, soon India will have a robust defence industry producing similar weapons and that too without relying on anyone.

 

[adnanash903]

I have read the whole magazine "second to none" recently released, but I could find any link between PL-15 and JF-17 B3. So until now we should consider that there is no PL-15 on B3. I wish I am proved wrong in future. It is an other task to integrate PL-15 on B3, JF-17 will benefit if the new version PL-12 appears.
Then the debate about PL-15 or PL-15E, in the magazine PL-15 is referred as "PL-15 BVRAAM" and "PL-15 long range BVR". There is no E subscript. Even PL-10 is quoted as "PL-10E highoff-bore IIR missile with IRSTS &HMD combination" admitting the version as PL-10E and why the PL-15 is not mentioned as PL-15E?