PAF Future Acquisition Plans

MS Sandhu said:
Do you think PAF is somewhat in hurry to go Stealth?
I was reading an article by RUSI on the SEAD/DEAD capabilities of European Air Forces.To my surprise,Author concluded that European Air Forces are seriously handicaped in SEAD/DEAD against Russia despite their advanced Fighter Jets.
If US gets itself busy at some other front in case of Europo-Russian war,EuAFs will not be able to penetrate Russian SAMs.
These are European Air Forces.Let alone Pakistani Air Force.
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With the AESA radar plus Meteor missiles at the IAF's hands the PAF needs a breakthrough via stealth. A moth-eaten stealth fighter is better than no stealth fighter.....
 
Quwa said:
IMO...despite what the PAF says about it, the Kaan isn't a factor. At this time, the J-31 is the PAF's only real NGFA route and, possibly, the only fighter they'll procure from the 2030s. If they can't afford J-31s, the PAF will resort to additional J-10CEs.
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Hi,

Looking at Paf's experience with the JF-17 without a legitimate engine in the begining of the production phase would be a major concern---.

Secondly---Paf cannot wait till 2035-40 for the KAAN aircraft to mature---.
 
JamD said:
There's a very big realization in the Turkish aerospace industry that to export their products they need to localize key components. So when I say they have access to technology, I mean that they have used and incorporated it, and are actively trying to make local versions of it. Not that they can buy ITAR products. For example, look at the Goktug program. They obviously have access to sidewinder and aamram and yet they are making their own versions. Part of the reason is, how can they export Kaan without missiles? Even things like the carbon-cloth used in composite parts is sometimes ITAR restricted and they've set up local production facilities for those. Lots of examples like that.

Like I said, they are very aware of the problems caused by reexport of ITAR equipment.
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No, the main reason is that TuAF desperately lacks a missile inventory sizeable enough to last more than a couple days. The US doesn't even sell a screw anymore without hindering Turkish efforts and it is nowadays obvious that the Congress is so much so against Turkey that they'll block any efforts of any sale.

It hasn't started developing subcomponents recently, it has been developing them for 20 years now. People who don't follow developments only think this because only now has Turkey started to churn out major projects as complex as tank engines, large turbofans, IADS, early warning and intel UAVs, 5th gen jets and wingman drones. But the ground work, the components for these revolutions have been going under the radar for foreigners for a long, long time now.

Now you'll name Kaan and Hürjet as counter examples but as brain damaged as the Americans are, at least a minority of them understands that giving Turkey's regional opponents advanced aircraft and weakening TuAF too much at the same time is also against their own interests. They will supply the engines just so that Turkey can develop them but also won't allow serial productions of Kaan or the armed version of Hürjet, à la German block of engine sales for the Altay tank.

(
Do not get me wrong, they absolutely want to weaken Turkey but they know they have to do it without encouraging Turkey's rivals too much. Many Turkish intellectuals and people in positions of power fear that Greeks may try something fanatical in the upcoming years as they've tried to numerous times in the past. These maniacs even shot down unarmed Turkish F-16s training in international airspace that they claim as theirs. This happened in the 90s btw
)

Another reason is that the Greeks also have AMRAAMs, they have lots of experience with it, they know its performance and also how to counter it.

Do not get me wrong, exporting products later on is absolutely one of the reasons in developing them. But that lies maybe the in the 4th or 5th order in Turkey's priorities. This is the reason why Turkey started developing it a decade ago. They haven't developed national PGMs and SOM cruise missiles to export them, they developed it so that they have a munitions to use in active war whenever and however they like it.

Do you know how hostile Frnace is against Turkey? Do you remember the security pact France and Greece made in 2020? The main reason why Greece went with Rafales is so that the French can supplement them from their own stocks whatever they need in a conflict with Turkey. Be it SCALPs, Meteors, Exocets or even aircraft. They've been doing this for the last 50 years for this exact reason the Rafale deal is a contuniation and expansion of that.

And nowadays you have the US which wants Turkey to bow down to US and give up its national interests, and they actively deploy in every major Greek base so that Turkey can't target them in a conflict. How can Turkey respond in this situation when the likeliest scenario is that the Greeks will try to start something similar to 2019 clashes between India and Pakistan albeit 10 times larger.

Even a deaf man has heard that most allies of Turkey except Spain and sometimes Italy & the UK actively try to hurt Turkish national security these days. Turkish airforce command is hither and thither searching for a stop gap fighter, and even their allies who depend their security on Turkish fighter deployments in Eastern Europe don't allow any exports.

As delusional as that might be, there are now serious talks about developing twin TF10000 engined Hürjet in Turkish circles right now; why do you think that is?
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You Pakistanis greatly overexaggerate western support for Turkish military development since you have slightly better access than Turkey and also haven't developed something complex (except missiles) in house yet. Sure, you can't get F-16s or AH-1s but Pakistan can procure Erieyes and Sea Sultans, helicopters, CAMM missiles, VLS' and radars from the West. These are all the things that Turkey has to develop alone down to the simplest subcomponent since it doesn't have access to. @JamD @Quwa @Nilgiri
 
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MS Sandhu said:
Do you think PAF is somewhat in hurry to go Stealth?
I was reading an article by RUSI on the SEAD/DEAD capabilities of European Air Forces.To my surprise,Author concluded that European Air Forces are seriously handicaped in SEAD/DEAD against Russia despite their advanced Fighter Jets.
If US gets itself busy at some other front in case of Europo-Russian war,EuAFs will not be able to penetrate Russian SAMs.
These are European Air Forces.Let alone Pakistani Air Force.
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I think the announcement was a little hurried and probably focused on making a statement rather than actual timeline
 
studsmart said:
A version of j31 will be in paf colors in next 3-4 years max I think
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No you're too optimistic I think it will be in 2030-2032 time frame, first customer will be the PLAAF after that PAF comes into play
 
Zarvan said:
Way before 2030-2032. PAF Chief won't be giving statement without making sure that the plane is set to be part of force in 3 to 4 years. By 2030-2032 would also start having KAAN INSHALLAH.
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Whatever the time frame, I still think announcement was premature, even if we get them in 1 year! Compare this with the J-10 procurement. PAF never announced it till the planes were delivered or just few days before. I remember when shiekh rasheed referred to it in a speech only a couple of months before delivery, PAF complained!

Same was the case with some other procurements from china by army /airforce. It should have been the case with J-31 also. Announce it only when ready for delivery.
 
MMM-E said:
next year ? maybe next decade
J35 is still a prototype and J-35 is not true 5th gen with WS-13 Engine

also J35 is nothing to compare with 2030s KAAN ( TF-X )

KAAN's rival is J-20 , but not J-35




TF-X is 21 m air superiority monster

even with American F-110-GE-129 Engine , TFX easly can match with Chinese J-35 in all fields
View attachment 8279


If there was no risk of engine embargo, Pakistan would even prefer the American engine version of KAAN to Chinese J35

as like T-129 Attack Helicopter which is far better than Chinese Z-10 Attack Helicopter
( btw Turkiye has developed TS-1400 turboshaft engine to power the T-129/629 Attack Helicopter in the next 2-3 years )
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Oh not again this BS :ROFLMAO:… first, the J-35 does not use the WS-13 and it is already in flight test since more than two years, something your beloved Kaan still has to prove. Even more so two demonstrators were tested since 2013 and 2016 and in fact your overhyped Kaan is at best comparable to a demonstrator.

And finally, until and even more so if Kaan gets a decent indigenous engine is so much open that in fact I would bet my ass, the J-35 will be in PLAN service for long and in substantial numbers and Pakistan may even operate its own J-31 if it ever will have that designation before your Kaan will be ready and available.
 
Anyone has any videos of j31 or j35 whatever that thing is called??
 
White and Green with M/S said:
Title is wrong there are no more J31 but SAC testing J 35 (improved version of J31)
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There is one on the first few pages of this thread but here you go.
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