PAF Future Acquisition Plans

[Oscar]

Hi,

The ACM's announcement has created a sh-itstorm around many a defence hallways worldwide---made them wonder where did that come from---.

Some not so positive for Pakistan and I don’t mean the Indians. Some suppliers are getting a little wary because they have speculative ideas on what the J-20 can do and what potential could be transferred onto the J-35. Think the concerns that led to the Turkish F-35 participation being culled - except in reverse.

 

[MastanKhan]

Some not so positive for Pakistan and I don’t mean the Indians. Some suppliers are getting a little wary because they have speculative ideas on what the J-20 can do and what potential could be transferred onto the J-35. Think the concerns that led to the Turkish F-35 participation being culled - except in reverse.

Hi,

ACM should have refrained from making that statement---. There was no reason it it---OTHER THAN INTERNAL SABOTAGE of the deal.

I don't recall any other ACM making these bold statements in the last decade or so---.

Our opponents only find out when the aircraft are being delivered---.

Would like to know the method behind this madness.

 

[Quwa]

Some not so positive for Pakistan and I don’t mean the Indians. Some suppliers are getting a little wary because they have speculative ideas on what the J-20 can do and what potential could be transferred onto the J-35. Think the concerns that led to the Turkish F-35 participation being culled - except in reverse.

Hi,

ACM should have refrained from making that statement---. There was no reason it it---OTHER THAN INTERNAL SABOTAGE of the deal.

I don't recall any other ACM making these bold statements in the last decade or so---.

Our opponents only find out when the aircraft are being delivered---.

Would like to know the method behind this madness.

IMO, the CAS' announcement was for an internal audience, a morale booster (akin to Mushy getting the US to resume F-16 sales to Pakistan).

By this point, everyone from the US to India would have figured the PAF would acquire a Chinese NGFA. Moreover, SAC developed the J-31 for the export market specifically, and it seems that's what the PAF is getting (not the J-35 developed for the PLAN). Or both.

So, the West has a gauge of what to expect because the J-31 largely fits with other market offerings, like KF-21, or programs like AMCA.

TBH, if America has a problem with the PAF buying J-31s, they should step in and encourage the South Koreans to sell KF-21s to the PAF instead. Or, perhaps, give Turkiye the greenlight to re-sell the KAAN with the GE F110s.

 

[Chirulz]

Hi,

J-31 if available within the next 4-5 years---because it will take much longer to train pilots on the 5th gen than the 4.5 gen---.

What Paf can do to shorten the time frame would be to install 5th gen ecm / radar package in the 4.5 gen aircraft.

Perhaps basic training has already been underway and near future induction of Chinese trainers is also step forward. Meanwhile Pak crew has already got some 5th Gen gadgets experience from J10 and JF17 block3.

Hi,

ACM should have refrained from making that statement---. There was no reason it it---OTHER THAN INTERNAL SABOTAGE of the deal.

I don't recall any other ACM making these bold statements in the last decade or so---.

Our opponents only find out when the aircraft are being delivered---.

Would like to know the method behind this madness.

The decision makers know better.

 

[hussain]

Would like to know the method behind this madness.

After this incident, he had to save face, somehow......

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/militants-attack-air-force-base-central-pakistan-military-2023-11-04/

 

[lightning f57]

Would it be fair to say the J35 will be more stealthy than the J20 when it enters service. Here's my basic logic, its a smaller aircraft, doesn't have cannards and will likely make use of the best stealth practises China has available given it will be a newer fighter jet.

 

[studsmart]

No you're too optimistic I think it will be in 2030-2032 time frame, first customer will be the PLAAF after that PAF comes into play

The question is why am I say that PAF will have a variant of j31 in 3-4 years ...

Because the discussions and build are at very advanced stage .... However I think that acm should have not spoken about it.

 

[alphapak]

Will PAF operate 2 twin engine fighter jets? both J31 and KAAN are twin
engine or will they go for single engine KAAN?

Can India get the F35 even though they have got the S400's? Türkiye got
kicked out of F35 program because they bought S400.

 

[Oscar]

Hi,

ACM should have refrained from making that statement---. There was no reason it it---OTHER THAN INTERNAL SABOTAGE of the deal.

I don't recall any other ACM making these bold statements in the last decade or so---.

Our opponents only find out when the aircraft are being delivered---.

Would like to know the method behind this madness.

His tenure is about to end - maybe keeping a legacy active? And there are specific interests pushing all sorts of different plans on the 5gen ideas

 

[snne]

Hi,

It might show from your perspective---but the F16's and AH 1 are everything---the rest are complimentary---.

I'd say that those are a couple times more important than a couple dozen F-16s or AH-1s or whatever. Have you heard of something called System of systems or Network Centric Warfare? Even if that wasn't the case, say that the advancements in networking and low observability haven't been made yet; Radars, SAM missiles, Vertical Launch Systems for ships, MPA, AW&CS and Transport aircraft are strategic assets that honestly even a key NATO ally like Turkey can't get its hands on and has to develop alone.

On top of that, you have an emerging technological superpower ally right next door making you an exception and willing to provide you pretty much anything you can finance with financial help from said party.

-On a somewhat unrelated note-

Turkey had sent the LoR for F-16Vs on 15th of September, 2021. Since then, it hasn't even reached the Congress yet and from there it is in the best case dubious whether the sale would pass through.

2 years! 2 years of waiting for some crappy F-16s that Turkey have been operating hundreds of for the last 40 years and has an equivalent modernisation program with indigenous avionics and radar. Meanwhile Turkey wastes the valuable remaining flight hours of its F-16s, stationing them in Romania and Poland, protecting European skies like an imbecile...

And when it comes to the local production of 109 S-70i helis under the name of T-70; it turns out Turkey has to pass a new request through the Congress again in order to keep producing T-70s after the 38th helicopter. Need I remind you that this is a 10 year old deal people!

I'm not even talking about all the subcomponents embargo bullsh.t that Turkish companies had to deal with...

 

[Oscar]

I'd say that those are a couple times more important than a couple dozen F-16s or AH-1s or whatever. Have you heard of something called System of systems or Network Centric Warfare? Even if that wasn't the case, say that the advancements in networking and low observability haven't been made yet; Radars, SAM missiles, Vertical Launch Systems for ships, MPA, AW&CS and Transport aircraft are strategic assets that honestly even a key NATO ally like Turkey can't get its hands on and has to develop alone.

On top of that, you have an emerging technological superpower ally right next door making you an exception and willing to provide you pretty much anything you can finance with financial help from said party.

-On a somewhat unrelated note-

Turkey had sent the LoR for F-16Vs on 15th of September, 2021. Since then, it hasn't even reached the Congress yet and from there it is in the best case dubious whether the sale would pass through.

2 years! 2 years of waiting for some crappy F-16s that Turkey have been operating hundreds of for the last 40 years and has an equivalent modernisation program with indigenous avionics and radar. Meanwhile Turkey wastes the valuable remaining flight hours of its F-16s, stationing them in Romania and Poland, protecting European skies like an imbecile...

And when it comes to the local production of 109 S-70i helis under the name of T-70; it turns out Turkey has to pass a new request through the Congress again in order to keep producing T-70s after the 38th helicopter. Need I remind you that this is a 10 year old deal people!

I'm not even talking about all the subcomponents embargo bullsh.t that Turkish companies had to deal with...

Lets keep the discussions on Turkish industry off this thread please. Tesakkur

 

[GriffinsRule]

Hi,

ACM should have refrained from making that statement---. There was no reason it it---OTHER THAN INTERNAL SABOTAGE of the deal.

I don't recall any other ACM making these bold statements in the last decade or so---.

Our opponents only find out when the aircraft are being delivered---.

Would like to know the method behind this madness.

I still stuck my train of thought that it is a PR exercise for this unpopular, uncharismatic and corrupt ACM.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Grey Falcon, I am liking the name already
While some folks state the Grey Falcon is a notch below the J20

However , having a Fighter Jet which does not appears in Radar is a new dimension to PAF

Similarly the KAAN project is hugely awaited from Turkish side

The Two platforms are sufficient for long term needs for PAF

 

[arjunk]

Whatever the time frame, I still think announcement was premature, even if we get them in 1 year! Compare this with the J-10 procurement. PAF never announced it till the planes were delivered or just few days before. I remember when shiekh rasheed referred to it in a speech only a couple of months before delivery, PAF complained!

Same was the case with some other procurements from china by army /airforce. It should have been the case with J-31 also. Announce it only when ready for delivery.

Unlike J-10Cs, this message is not solely reserved for the jokers to the east

 

[Oscar]

I still stuck my train of thought that it is a PR exercise for this unpopular, uncharismatic and corrupt ACM.

Oddly enough, I have heard the contrary from serving people regarding the last bit. They are quite surprised at the allegations that came out.