PAF Future Acquisition Plans

[arjunk]

Would it be fair to say the J35 will be more stealthy than the J20 when it enters service. Here's my basic logic, its a smaller aircraft, doesn't have cannards and will likely make use of the best stealth practises China has available given it will be a newer fighter jet.

You have correctly pointed out differences in the shape -

But the real difference comes from classified variables we cannot physically see. For example, ECM capabilities, Radar range, type of stealth painting used, quality of missiles & their seekers (PL-15 vs PL-15E for example), etc.

 

[Ghseean]

Would it be fair to say the J35 will be more stealthy than the J20 when it enters service. Here's my basic logic, its a smaller aircraft, doesn't have cannards and will likely make use of the best stealth practises China has available given it will be a newer fighter jet.

probably, it is going to have a lot of goodies based on experiences gained from J-20 including, improved stealth characteristics.

besides, how much PAF personnel is allowed to look into J-20 for a comparative study between the two, hence putting forward the requirement list?

may be we have radar and other electronic warfare equipment under further test and evaluation after looking into them and setting a new mile stone.

announcement at this time raise questions. if it is not done in a hurry which we suspect and if expected induction is in 5-7 years, what is further requirements by PAF that will consume this time period?

otherwise, announcement if made: "we are going to join the program" instead of what is said would have help people avoid raising doubts.

 

[Corax]

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, what other options were open to the PAF? Given the historical precedent of PAK/Sino cooperation, the JF-17, etc., any idiot can see the J-31 was the only option. Indigenous efforts at a fifth gen were laughingly unrealistic, and the KAAN comes with its own risks. This news isn't really much of a surprise given the J-31 is intended for export anyway.

What would have been really surprising is if the PAF were acquiring the F-35, now that would be newsworthy! Otherwise all this hullabaloo is just the usual south Asian drum beating at anything new.

 

[Harbyharb]

Would it be fair to say the J35 will be more stealthy than the J20 when it enters service. Here's my basic logic, its a smaller aircraft, doesn't have cannards and will likely make use of the best stealth practises China has available given it will be a newer fighter jet.

Hi,

Obviously when it comes to export market, the specific level of stealth, including radar, EO, and ELINT stealth would all be customizable, from radar absorbent material, actuator form treatment, conforming antenna arrays, EODAS, etc. It wouldn't be a surprise if PAF opt for slightly less performant options for lower maintenance requirement and cost.

From a pure airframe geometry point of view, referencing the J-35 prototype for indigenous use, it can be reasonably inferred that it would enjoy a lower RCS than J-20. Overall the amount of parallel geometry groups are reduced, such as no contoured intake lips, no leading edge extension, the introduction of more compact electro static actuators instead of traditional hydro-pneumatic ones thus eliminating under-wing bulges, and cropped tips on all airfoils. J-20 have to make concessions for very focused supersonic superiority and vertical agility, something the J-35 doesn't seem very focused on.

 

[Corax]

Hi,

Obviously when it comes to export market, the specific level of stealth, including radar, EO, and ELINT stealth would all be customizable, from radar absorbent material, actuator form treatment, conforming antenna arrays, EODAS, etc. It wouldn't be a surprise if PAF opt for slightly less performant options for lower maintenance requirement and cost.

From a pure airframe geometry point of view, referencing the J-35 prototype for indigenous use, it can be reasonably inferred that it would enjoy a lower RCS than J-20. Overall the amount of parallel geometry groups are reduced, such as no contoured intake lips, no leading edge extension, the introduction of more compact electro static actuators instead of traditional hydro-pneumatic ones thus eliminating under-wing bulges, and cropped tips on all airfoils. J-20 have to make concessions for very focused supersonic superiority and vertical agility, something the J-35 doesn't seem very focused on.

The 'hi-end' J-20 appears to be focused around long range air interception/dominance, primarily orientated towards providing counter air cover over the South China Sea in support of integrated missions with strategic air components and the PLAN, while the J-31/35 seems to have a multi-role and naval carrier operations in mind, and secondary export market focus. It's unlikely the J-20 will ever be exported. It's similar to the US F-22/F-35 'hi-lo' mix.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

Left, the speculative J-31E for the Pakistan air force.Right, the evolution of J-35 from the FC-31 prototype.

 

[Pioneer]

Hope to deliver as soon as possible. Because there may be major events happening in China in the next five years. High intensity war or revolution.

 

[passer-by]

I will say Pakistan will eventually adopt J-35, but probably not for a long time.

First of all, you need to consider how many J-35 the Chinese can push out every year, unless the Chinese do not adopt it and solely use it for export customer, you are looking at decade for Pakistan to fill any reasonable number. The Chinese are not making it by thousands, which mean there are only a few, if at all, that is available for the Pakistani to pick up every year.

On the other hand, you also need to factor in maintenance and operational cost. You will need to grow a few team that can take care of the platform, mind the radar, the stealth coating and so on, and then perform field maintenance, even with Chinese help, this is going to be multi-decade timeframe to transition from 4th gen to 5th gen, while doing all these aren't cheap at the ground perspective, you need to be realistic and think how many J-35 Pakistan can afford to fly even if Chinese are selling.

And finally, it's going to be a serious gamble for Pakistan to adopt a "just-out-of-drawing-board" tech, conventional wisdom will be having the Chinese to field J-35 first for a couple of year, then acquire both platform and technology from China, rather than dove head first with the Chinese when they are still optimizing the platform, I mean, if Pakistan have a couple of billions to spare, maybe, but any conventional wisdom would suggest Pakistan should wait until the platform to be mature first before adopting it.

In short, PAF may fly J-35 in the future, but it would most likely be post 2030 or even post 2035 if we look at the situation objectively.

 

[ziaulislam]

No I think it will be as early as 2030-2032 you're too optimistic

It's obvious that it will be inducted within 5 years
You don't hear statements

Which is surprising does that mean it's about to go into production..??

As I am sure Paf wouldn't have signed without plaaf and plaaf will get first

Unless it's pure export aircraft meant for Paf ..well then it's a wrong move as it will be expensive with zero tech transfer

Paf should have been focused on Turkish platform

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Obviously when it comes to export market, the specific level of stealth, including radar, EO, and ELINT stealth would all be customizable, from radar absorbent material, actuator form treatment, conforming antenna arrays, EODAS, etc. It wouldn't be a surprise if PAF opt for slightly less performant options for lower maintenance requirement and cost.

From a pure airframe geometry point of view, referencing the J-35 prototype for indigenous use, it can be reasonably inferred that it would enjoy a lower RCS than J-20. Overall the amount of parallel geometry groups are reduced, such as no contoured intake lips, no leading edge extension, the introduction of more compact electro static actuators instead of traditional hydro-pneumatic ones thus eliminating under-wing bulges, and cropped tips on all airfoils. J-20 have to make concessions for very focused supersonic superiority and vertical agility, something the J-35 doesn't seem very focused on.

Hi,

You are mistaken about Paf---.

It never opts for " less performance option " mindset.

It goes for what is the best fit that is available.

If Paf wants the J-20---that aircraft is available to Paf.

 

[harpy1]

So looks like a new PAF in 10 years looking like JF-17C, J-10C, F-16, J-35 and KAAN? Feels like far too many types. Maybe J-10C purchase was. a mistake or interim buy with limited numbers?

I can't see paf buying two different fifth gen fighters
Firstly unit cost is massive
Secondly the operation cost per hour and maintenance is triple cost of f16 or jf17
Most countries with ten times pakistan budget cant operate one fifth gen avd you guys jumping on hearsay about Turkish and china fifty gen
Reality ....in ten years time
Turks kaan will be so limited in production hardly two sqds in Turkish air power let alone export to other nations
Turkey still need partners to finance full production with serious money
Realistic if you have 20 j35 by 2030

Second took Pakistan 15 years to buy 20 j10 which arrived 2010...
So why j35 coming asap on day one you will have done well

 

[harpy1]

Just to bring reality to this thread
RAF have cut the f35 orde

 

[Deino]

…

If Paf wants the J-20---that aircraft is available to Paf.

Yes for sure, in the same way like JH-7A, J-11B, J-15 and the Liaoning and 055 DDG, and J-16 which are said to be not only available for free but like some claim already secretly in service in Pakistan … today a clown on Twitter suggested, Pakistan should introduce H-6 bombers.

You guys should stop smoking that stuff.
Come on, J-20 will not be available, J-35 won’t be ready for the PLAN in 3-4 years and surely not a not yet flown fighter J-31.

 

[Reichmarshal]

IMO, the CAS' announcement was for an internal audience, a morale booster (akin to Mushy getting the US to resume F-16 sales to Pakistan).

By this point, everyone from the US to India would have figured the PAF would acquire a Chinese NGFA. Moreover, SAC developed the J-31 for the export market specifically, and it seems that's what the PAF is getting (not the J-35 developed for the PLAN). Or both.

So, the West has a gauge of what to expect because the J-31 largely fits with other market offerings, like KF-21, or programs like AMCA.

TBH, if America has a problem with the PAF buying J-31s, they should step in and encourage the South Koreans to sell KF-21s to the PAF instead. Or, perhaps, give Turkiye the greenlight to re-sell the KAAN with the GE F110s.

If ur comparing j 31 with the Korean kf21 then we have a problem cuz the Koreans consider the kf21 as a 4.5 + ac n not a 5th gen ac....

 

[studsmart]

Save this post and then blame me later if it did not happen 2027 you will see a 5th Gen fighter in PAF colors