PAF Future Acquisition Plans

[Bilal]

Well in my age I witnessed the release of "Tum hi se aye mujahidoo" on PTV and supposedly that was the best of PAF's public relations effort which they used to quote even after 2-3 decades.

So from that level of release of video till today's video for me PAF has improved though as per latest trends they are still behind.

My favorite from the time was aisey hum jiyen by Vital Signs. Tum hi se was good too and current air chief was in it.

 

[White Privilege]

In a gangster movie, Joe Pesci asks Deniro and the gang to do a Diamond heist job and tells them it's kids stuff, Deniro replies, "if it's kids stuff then why ask us ? get the kids do it !"
Alas, those who think it's amateur material then please move on to some professional section. Rest stop counting the trees and enjoy the harvest .

View attachment 11865
View attachment 11867
View attachment 11869
View attachment 11870
View attachment 11876

So it's official. J-10C would be an F-16/Mirage hybrid (role wise) and would soon swell in numbers....

 

[Zarvan]

So it's official. J-10C would be an F-16/Mirage hybrid (role wise) and would soon swell in numbers....

Yes Sir. J-10 will do both Air to Air and also Mirage role. Until the J-31 arrives.

 

[Quwa]

Okay everyone, let's move this discussion about the PAF (and armed forces') media production quality to a different thread. It's a good topic to discuss, but better placed in the Military Photos & Multimedia forum. Thanks!

Looking at the video, I see a plain focus on conventional deterrence via 2 main methods: anti-access and area-denial (A2/AD) and assured retaliatory response.

The A2/AD capability has come through the induction of medium-to-long-range SAMs (i.e., HQ-16FE and HQ-9BE), ground-based EA/ECM, early warning radars, passive sensors, and a diverse, highly-varied gap-filler radar coverage. However, this is just the surface-based A2/AD element; the JF-17C will offer the air-to-air A2/AD element.

In some ways, you could argue that the A2/AD investment is a response to the fact that India even undertook the Balakot strikes in the first place. The Chinese EWRs (aka the 'anti-stealth radars') and new gap-fillers are there to pick up incoming ingressions, and the longer-range SAMs will be the first response mechanism. Land-based jamming against radar and comms can help mitigate an enemy stand-off weapon (SOW) attack.

The JF-17Cs and J-10CEs will reinforce the A2/AD. Numbers are key, so I think the PAF will upgrade the JF-17B and the JF-17 Block-2 with AESA radars and HMD/S, thereby adding 88 fully capable tactical fighters to the 30 JF-17Cs. This will be further reinforced with the 50-odd Block-Is and 75-odd F-16s which, while older electronics, are solid A2/AD assets.

The J-10CE numbers will go up (80-90+) to start building the offensive element, i.e., assured retaliatory response alongside UCAVs, starting with the Akinci. The Akinci could be the new 'bomb truck' whose goal is to deploy ALCMs and/or 225 kg and 450 kg REK PGBs. It'll deploy these munitions from deep within Pakistani territory (as it's a slower-moving aircraft, not suitable to get too close to the border).

The strike element will leverage the Global Express 6000-based ECM/EA aircraft (which will provide stand-off range jamming). I think it's also plausible that the PAF will acquire several Saab GlobalEye systems based on the Express 6000. The question is whether they can get it with a high-powered SAR/GMTI and an EOTS (not just EO/IR) for real-time ground targeting at long-range (which they can use to coordinate SOW and UCAV deployments).

By 2040, the strike element could center on the J-31, which would provide both air-to-ground (A2G) and air-to-air (A2A) coverage. This could be complemented by a combo of strike UCAVs, loyal wingman UCAVs, and attritable UCAVs (for decoy ops, dual-recce and munition, dual-jammer and munition, etc). This would basically be the steep evolution of the package the PAF threw at India via Swift Retort. In turn, the J-10CEs would be regrouped into the A2/AD force alongside the JF-17Cs

This is in addition to the Pak Army's long-range guided-rocket investment (Fatah family) and, possibly, TBM acquisitions. I wouldn't be surprised if we also see a conventionally-focused GLCM (leveraging Harbah NG as the basis).

 

[Taimoor]

I lost count how many times Cheif was mentioned as if he is paying for goodies from his own pocket! These are state assets, paid by tax payer money, not for someone's PR stunt. Project solely the fire power of Pakistan, not some individual. And that 22 grade officer at the end! WHYYYY PAF WHYYY??

There are people working outside Pakistan number of years for the induction of 5th gen fighter, way before incumbent time, why is he trying to take credit as if he started it? Whoever is the chief when first bird enter Pakistani airspace, will take the glory, that is how it works.

 

[Oscar]

The TUAF were delived either 1 or 2 F-35....I am sure they have gained valuable insight from the ac

Yes - but not in Turkey, TuAF examples were in Luke AFB I think. It was in the states but they were part of the development team and subcontractors so lots of insight but no full cycle finished product to fully understand teething and other issues.

 

[SaadH]

Leadership matters. If they never encouraged and approved these plans and or had vision to adopt technology this won't have happened. So, credit goes to all the Air Chiefs specially the recent most 5 Air Chiefs.

All these five chiefs couldn't have done jack $hit w/o the availability of funds. It's only in the past decade or so, the thick headed duffers in GHQ have realized after watching umpteenth modern conflicts that the next one involving Pakistan might purely be an aerial one. So, they've relented on reallocation of funds to PAF. The previous chiefs prior to these latest batch didn't have the same luxury in the 90's/00's.

 

[harpy1]

The Indians had no intention of buying F35 from.usa
Their plans are where to developed Amca it's own fifth gen fighters but this will not happen until.2040
The Russian Pak fa isx deemed not true fifth gen and at best rafale level.fighters...

Pakistan has thrown a spanner in the works with a real threat of Paf acquiring 20 or even 40 J35 by 2030....

The Indians will need a solution they cannot await until Amca is ready by 2040

This means imo three options
F35 with all sorts of conditions attached by USA ok no guarantee of more USA purchases proper tied to hip ... something India will not wish

Joint purchase of more rafale F5 purchase in larger no's with loyal
wingman drones from France as interim solution with help from France for quicker developments of Amca


Finally going back to RUSSIA TO work on a new much improved Su57 with a lot more Indian input
To enter service in decade or so from now ...
The current Su57 is just not good enough

The more long term solution outside of F35 is the french and British fifth gen programmes but these are entering same time as Amca IE post 2040

One very outside option might be the korean next gen fighters too

 

[Reichmarshal]

are you sure?

https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/turkey-takes-delivery-of-first-two-f-35-fighter-jets-in-us-18357

 

[GriffinsRule]

It says in the video that all these decisions are due to "current resource contraints".

It seems that the economic decline of last 2 years is now biting into PAF inventory. Possibly they are eliminating assets of higher costs and lesser value in order to maintain the those of higher priority.

Meaning these decisions are forced due to budget issues.

A sign of things to come. In all honesty if transport aircraft are becoming a burden, they def will struggle with the keeping 5th gen aircraft operational. Welcome to an economy run by nizamuddin.

 

[Yasser76]

A sign of things to come. In all honesty if transport aircraft are becoming a burden, they def will struggle with the keeping 5th gen aircraft operational. Welcome to an economy run by nizamuddin.

Literally every air force does this as it is way way beyond time PAF started. We have been operating far too many types for years, of course this would take up valuable resources, it has been a major burden. now at last we can invest in technology and equipment that allows us to rationalise and save costs, else we may become like Indian Air Force.

Any person can see we have duplicated effort or some systems that offer little nag per buck

CN-235 - Job now can be done by SAAB 2000 transports that can also act as training aircraft for Erieye

F-7PG - This is no longer relevant in modern war. Training costs, spares, pilots and engineers to put up a fighter with 45 minute endurance, no BVR and no in flight refurlling capapbility with 90s era radar

 

[farooqbhai]

A sign of things to come. In all honesty if transport aircraft are becoming a burden, they def will struggle with the keeping 5th gen aircraft operational. Welcome to an economy run by nizamuddin.

Omg. Do research - nope, Do rants - Yes.

Paf significantly increased C130 fleet by adding 7 more Ex BAF C130s. additionally A319 and Cargo B737 have also been procured. With that in mind the Cn235s are being retired. Additionally PAF isn't the only one retiring not too old Cn235s very soon. Some other countries have been doing same and I suspect this might have something to do with maintenance issues in the Cn235s.

 

[Talon]

If the radar performance was not that satisfactory, they could have opted for the upgrades instead of retirement. For example, the AESA radar that is being used by KJ-500.

The whole aircraft was a problem..too many issues

 

[Pioneer]

Yes go ahead try to mess with China if their fighter jets are so crap. Mr even the Apple you use used to be made by them. China gives quality according to what you require. Their fighter jets are one of the best things in the world now. They are improving further. J-31 when fully ready would be a beast.

There is a small company in China called "Sunny Optical". before it built a factory in India.... Indians don’t even know what a “phone camera” is.

 

[DedBot]

Nasrallah

Kind enough to allow Pakistan to save some face. (even if it was a unilateral action; which it was most likely)