arjunk
Trusted Member
Getting it is not an issue, buying at a discounted price is
If you gave PAF a budget of 10 billion dollars you bet they would spend it all on F-16 Indus Vipers
PAF Future Acquisition Plans
- Thread starter FOOLS_NIGHTMARE
- Start date
If you gave PAF a budget of 10 billion dollars you bet they would spend it all on F-16 Indus Vipers
Yasser76
Elite Member
Well, one side effect of recent events is that is may make US Congress and the administration more amenable to get a F-16V package along with more Vipers approved. Anything Anti-Iran goes down very well on The Hill...
Corax
Registered Member
If that was the case, the T-129s wouldn't have been blocked. It's clear the US is less keen to supply Pakistan with anything significant. A few second hand ex-Belgian Hercs and other minor stuff is fine though for the US.
RescueRanger
Meme Lord
It’s becoming a trend now. Don’t you think so?
hyperman
INT'L MOD
And I responded, the PL-15E cannot be used to its full capacity on a JF-17, its one thing for the missile to have the range, its another for the sensor to pick up, track and do target management to guide the missile there. I had mentioned this before, with AWACs removed from the picture, in a comparison of the eurofighter and the JF-17. Lets say there is a scenario like that, the eurofighter will detect the JF-17 earlier than the JF-17 will detect it, it will fire a meteor missle, and then bail. The only thing at that point the JF-17 would detect is the missile coming right at it. Without AWACS in that scenario in most engagements, the kill goes to the eurofighter. There is also the issue of electronic warfare that the Eurofighter can carry out, that I haven't factored in.
Quwa
Research Partner
KLJ-7A range for a 5m2 target: >150 km
PL-15E range: 145 km
Practically, the JF-17 isn't going to fight the Typhoon. Rather, the PAF will position the JF-17C to take on threats it can manage, such as the MiG-29, Mirage 2000, and Su-30.
I'm not saying that the JF-17C is better than any of them, but rather, the question we always want to address is: can the JF-17C be a credible threat? We've ascertained that its AESA radar can support its primary AAM and, potentially, a larger RCS aircraft (like Su-30) could show up earlier on the KLJ-7A than a smaller one (like Rafale or Tejas).
BTW, I'll be consistent with my logic here. Just as the JF-17C can pose a threat to the Flanker, the Tejas can easily pose as much (if not more) of a threat to the JF-17C. This is the big reason why the PAF will not use the JF-17C as the centerpiece of any offensive air op inside India (rather, it'll defer to NGFA and stealthy UCAVs when those are available).
Oscar
Moderator
As the nation so is the state - leadership impacts trickle top down. And the people’s state reflects on who they get as a leader.
hyperman
INT'L MOD
Of Course it can be a credible threat, did I ever say the JF-17 was useless or something? though it should be noted, detection range and tracking range are very different. You can detect something is out there, but to lock on and fire a missile and guide it there are two different things. For example, there are many radars that can detect the F-35, but to be able to do it clearly enough to where you can track and lock onto it and send a missile is another matter. Then you add on the other complexities of air warfare with EW and other stuff.
Listen this whole BS started when that guy made the claim that the JF-17 is equivalent to the Eurofighter and F-16V, now we seem to be having a very different conversation. If you are not contesting that they are equivalent, then I have no interest in this conversation, b/c the only reason I started arguing is b/c that guy was bloing smoke up his own ass about JF-17s being the equivalent of a Eurofighter and how Pakistani engineers this and that, can create something for $25M that it takes the Western powers $100M to create, exchange rate, purchasing power yada yada yada. and then he started accusing me of being some hindutwa guy hating on Pakistan, which I didn't do. The only issue I have is with people who like to blow smoke up their own ass, whether they are Indians bragging about Tejas, or Pakistanis, Chinese, and even other americans who discredit china in certain aspects.
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Cesur
Registered Member
I think India has one and only option. Purchasing the Korean KF-21 although it's not a true 5th gen aircraft as of yet but will certainly become one in the near future.
MasterChief
Registered Member
I want what you are smoking.
Awwad
Registered Member
In a technical discussion, everything is time bound. You have to name the generation, dates or year or block number. No one can make a general statement like this.
There is a flaw in the argument when people say that JF-17 is to replace J-7s and Mirages. I explain with an analogy:
F-16 was built in mid 1970s, If today I make a sweeping statement that F-16s is a 1970s aircraft, it was meant to do just dogfight and its no good in 21st century. That will be a truthful statement if F-16s were only produced in 1970s and there were no block by block evolution of the aircraft. I can never compare F-16 block 72 with F-16 of 1970s. F-16 block 72 looks same, it has even the same name, but its entirely different from the inside, its a different beast, it has whole lot of different capabilities. F-16 being produced today in 2024 are not being produced to replace Tomcats or to do WVR combat. They are of today's standards.
Similarly, if JF-17 was meant to replace the J-7s / Mirages or other third gen aircrafts than Why on earth they bothered to put lot of time & effort in producing block III ? They should have kept producing block-1. The block III if its produced in 2020s is of the standards & technology of this decade. It's different plane, its goals are aligned with its capabilities which were unheard of when first JF-17s were being developed. Capabilities like HOBS, EW suites, AESA, different weapon systems etc. Those were never in the mind when first JF-17 block was rolled out. So aircraft is just not a particular kind of airframes. Its a whole project that goes through evolution over various decades. Only thing that sticks to it is its weight-class. If its a light-weight aircraft than the advantages & dis-advantages of that particular weight class will more of less stick to it over the decades.
Oscar
Moderator
Good luck to any fool who keeps these assumptions just to assuage their own ego. For certain functions - the JF-17 poses a fairly potent threat.
Dreamer
Registered Member
NO, he shouldn't elaborate anything about Jf-17 in J-31 thread. There's a whole section for JF-17 discussions.
