Pak-Afghan Border Skirmishes and Terrorism Watch

[PakAl]

Afghan war - its the Saudis who financed, not just buying weapons from CIA for Pakistan and Afghani mujahedeen but also sponsoring madrassah's. The wahabi mentality alongwith jihadi psychology (only AK-47 related) sprung into action. The meaning of jihad became only waging war and use of force through weapons, since it was the use of weapons that helped win against USSR. Reasoning, humanity and self-accountability died.

In Pakistan we say it was because of soviet union but who sponsored this ideology in Yemen, Iraq, Mali, Somalia, Libya, Syria, Algeria etc. Nearly every Islamic country we have low level or high level insurgency taking place due to funding given by gulf gcc and sponsoring an extremist ideology. This wasn't by accident but design to keep the Muslim fighting each other and small level insurgency so their economic, societies don't grow. It has been devastating but effective.

ISI should have known the consequences, or should have stopped all funding after Soviets withrew, they turned a blind eye until the monster went out of control. Its not just maddrassas, educated professionals with uni degrees also join jihadis due to the appeal, we had 1000s Muslims from Europe and USA join ISIS in Iraq and Syria, we had Muslim girls age 15 leaving to join to become jihadi brides. They were ofcourse brainwashed by local snidy youtube mullahs, who brainwashed and sent them all to Syria and themselves live in the west, the governments know exactly who they are but turn a blind eye. I at times criticise Pakistan leadership but deep down I understand fully that this game is above their head.

 

[PakAl]

Unfortunately, there are Pakistani (civilians) supporters of TTP as well as BLA inside Pakistan. The extremist ideology of Islam still exists in KPK, as well as to a smaller level in other provinces.

Yes true but I feel it has been greatly reduced. The people are generally tired of terrorism and terrorists, the extremist mullahs are also pretending to be moderate but deep down still love the jihad groups, the same sarkari molvis who come on TV acting all sweet.

 

[PakAl]

Lawlessness - another issue. Military knows civil bureaucracy doesn't follow law. Judiciary gets its way where it can, but gets frustrated by freedom enjoyed by military.

Let me say one more thing here - Pakistanis want burecracy, judges, generals, ministers, government officers - to follow the LAW at all costs, but Pakistanis themselves break the law all the time, day or night.

Those asking why military breaks constitution, do they follow the law themselves ? No. Its a trend to break law from top to bottom. Its like everybody is a saint in Pakistan except the ones sitting at top as they are deemed corrupt only. Its the Pakistani society as a whole which is corrupt as none follow law.

So in Pakistan its shown as - the saints (civilians) are being ruled by the devils (ministers, generals etc). That is utter crap.

100% spot on, If the awaam believes they are big game players then the military needs to make sure they are the daddy game players, if the awaam is the biggest backstabber then the military knows this and are their daddy at backstabbing. If the military becomes shareef then we would eat them for breakfast, maybe have f16s on top of our houses as a trophy. 100% the civilians would make our army absolute useless.

I can fully understand the military actions but what's frustrating is after 78 years nothing has been changed, we have the same old corrupt rotten system, the normal people are suffering and frustrated, we got terrorists everywhere bombing, economy, education in mess, no rule of law, the nation has no hope left. Pakistan needs a change to survive, build strong independent institutes, rule of law etc.

 

[arjunk]

It is not bound to civilians to obey the law by morality, at least.

Civilians are supposed to obey the law. Don't be ridiculous.

 

[MapleKing]

The Turkish way:

Vatan = Millet = Bayrak (flag) = Din = Azan = Shehadet

Pakistani nationalism cannot function without Islam.

It would be a hodgepodge of nations and cultures who have a much stronger sense of identity. Nothing but artifical lines on a map held together by an Army. Army goes, Pakistan goes. Not to mention the loss of soft power across the globe.

What the country should look like can be debated. Whatever the end state is, it is of paramount importance that mullah influence is curtailed which cannot be done if state doesn't have legitimacy.

 

[Goenitz]

Its exactly this mentality which is the core issue of leading Pakistan towards ruin.

It is 'holier than thou' attitude of army, judiciary, judges, mullahs, politicians, etc. There is no standard to follow but what today's thought/mood.
One day jihad is legal, then it is not. One day protest is right and tomorrow it isn't. That is why we are in ruin.

Civilians are supposed to obey the law. Don't be ridiculous.

Everybody is supposed to obey. A citizen can just break the law.
When an officer/politician breaks it, it is a violation of his oath and law.
Like a civilian is supposed to fight and protect his country. But it is a soldier's duty.

 

[Saifullah]

Afghan war - its the Saudis who financed, not just buying weapons from CIA for Pakistan and Afghani mujahedeen but also sponsoring madrassah's. The wahabi mentality alongwith jihadi psychology (only AK-47 related) sprung into action. The meaning of jihad became only waging war and use of force through weapons, since it was the use of weapons that helped win against USSR. Reasoning, humanity and self-accountability died..

The excuse of Saudi money is no longer valid cuz Daesh is mostly Wahabi and they takfir and fight Deobandi Taliban. Taliban are fighting insurgencies in wahabi/salafi dominated parts of Afghanistan like Nangarhar.
Also, don’t forget Pakistan benefited off this and played a bigger role than Saudi or USA to promote Jihad against Soviets.
This is a major reason why we have ttp or similar groups. Pre 9/11 Pakistan called them mujahideen for fighting against soviets, recognized Taliban government, sent mujahideen to fight in Kashmir and promoted Jihad in Kashmir, and even against Iran. After 9/11 suddenly those mujahideen become terrorists and Pakistan allows Americans to break all diplomatic rules by arresting Taliban ambassador in Pakistan and Pakistan starts cracking down against all the foreign fighters it allowed in its country for its various Jihads. Pakistan also cut support for Kashmiri mujahideen and tried to enforce secularism on a society which it just previously spent almost three decades conditioning for Jihad. All those people raised in madressas for Jihad wouldn’t just forget about it. Additionally, Pakistan’s continued support for Taliban and playing double games basically sent the message that if you fight in Afghanistan you’re mujahideen if you fight in Pakistan you’re terrorist. To make things worse the Lal masjid raid happened.

My point is Pakistan is the SOLELY responsible for all this. Saudis also promote Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia and originally had some issues with terrorists. They solved the issue. Pakistan didn’t cuz it wanted to use them for its double games.

Pakistan gave its enemies an opportunity to attack it with the same people it raised and created. Pakistan cowardice, pacifism, and bipolarness caused the ones we trained for Kashmir to end up fighting us in waziristan.

The day generals wake up and think outside of making money, that’s the day Pakistan’s issues will be solved. Until then they will happily throw the country into foreign wars so they can build mansions abroad while throwing the blame of Saudi or usa for its own doings.

 

[Bigda_Jatt]

Oh Pakistan, when will you grow up and have an independent foreign policy that benefits the people of Pakistan? you can become a strong player if you can come out of the shadows of the past, it is not the 80's or the 90's.

 

[Saifullah]

The extremist ideology of Islam still exists in KPK, as well as to a smaller level in other provinces.

That’s what happens when you call the country and “Islamic republic” but also try to make the country secular.
The longer Pakistan stays in an ideology crisis, the more opportunity it gives to ignorants to exploit Islam for their personal gains.

 

[arjunk]

What needs to be taught is that we lived together as one nation even before Islam, and after the arrival of Islam, we should only be more united.

Pakistani nationalism cannot function without Islam.

It would be a hodgepodge of nations and cultures who have a much stronger sense of identity. Nothing but artifical lines on a map held together by an Army. Army goes, Pakistan goes. Not to mention the loss of soft power across the globe.

What the country should look like can be debated. Whatever the end state is, it is of paramount importance that mullah influence is curtailed which cannot be done if state doesn't have legitimacy.

 

[Saifullah]

What needs to be taught is that we lived together as one nation even before Islam, and after the arrival of Islam, we should only be more united.

But that’s not true.
We need to stop teaching made up stuff or continue being in an ideology crisis.
Pakistan can be an Islamic republic and use Islam to keep us united while defeating terrorism.

If the state pushes secularism people will turn to ignorant Mullahs for learning Islam.
If the state embraces Islam people will stay away from ignorant Mullahs.

It’s as simple as that.

 

[Winthorpe]

It's all by design. Pakistani Military establishment needs a kinetic conflict area. In Pakistan's case that kinetic area happens to be within its own borders. The goal is to offer US and other States their services in exchange for some $$$$.

A stable prosperous Pakistan isn't going to do that for the military establishment. Sacrificing expandable villagers, bloody civilians, and even their own low grade officers is an acceptable tradeoff for these Generals and above.

The failed banana republic of Faujistan needs continued conflict for its own survival. Corrupt politicians and judges provide the curtain (facade) behind which they prefer to operate. However, due to the incompetence of the politicians they military establishment needs to pull the curtain aside every now and then to re-align the system.

Terrorism is part of the Pakistani experience. Pakistan is a client Punjab garrison state. It's service are for hire to the highest bidder. It's by design. Pakistan's people are it's slave.

This is by far one of the most succint and accurate descriptions of the country. I would add the presence of colonial overlords to make sure this system is not challenged from within or without.

 

[JaneBhiDoYaaron]

Pakistan is a secular state, pretending to be an Islamic state, ruling over a Muslim polity, resenting them for being so, trying its best to secularize them, who in turn are trying to Islamize it.

Solve this identity crisis and you'll be an unstoppable force. TTP te shai hi koi ni.

Hi, just so I can process your message correctly.

Are you saying that currently Pakistan is a secular state and pretending to be Islamic or other way?

Also great thread and good discussion. Keep it up

 

[WildApache]

Are they blaming India today lol it was Afghanistan yesterday. I can see the future it'll be pinned on Iran tomorrow.

These monkeys in uniform couldn't organise a piss up in muree brewery let alone defend the country . Nothing will happen never does always bark bark like the loudest stray dog in the neighbourhood and then hide lick your paws and pretend it didn't happen.

 

[Signalian]

@RescueRanger
Thoughts ?

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