Pakistan Among the Top 10 Military Powers According to Global Firepower Report 2024

[Michael]

The ranking of military forces is actually meaningless. It is merely a tool used by some news organizations, think tanks, and research institutions to deceive the public. Of course, some military forces also use this method to request funding from the government.

As military enthusiasts, we should just observe and not argue about who is stronger or weaker.

The U.S. military’s operations in Afghanistan ended with a complete withdrawal. The U.S. military did not achieve its expected goals; the Taliban achieved theirs. Therefore, it can be judged that the Taliban won this war. However, we do not believe the Taliban is stronger than the U.S. military. Why?

In military strategic assessments, in addition to weapons and equipment, many other factors influence the outcome of a war:

The determination of the decision-makers. If a country’s military decision-makers are filled with divisions and cannot make decisions quickly and effectively, it will severely impact the combat effectiveness of the military. In fact, many countries' military decision-makers currently include both doves and hawks.

The fighting will of soldiers. This is something everyone should understand, so I won’t go into detail.

Logistical support capabilities. When war comes, whether it is possible to provide enough weapons, ammunition, and supplies to frontline soldiers on time is a very complex and large issue. Can supplies be continuously provided from domestic production or external purchases? Are there sufficient and safe transportation routes and means?

Strategic wisdom and tactical command. Does the commander have sufficient wisdom and strength?

Adequate reserve forces. Numerous painful lessons tell us that when war comes, “soldiers” seized from the streets will not help in the war; they will only consume more resources and equipment.

As for weapons and equipment, they are just amplifiers. When an army has completely lost its fighting will, even the most advanced equipment will not help; it will only accelerate its demise—when these people are killed or captured, this advanced equipment will help the enemy defeat them more quickly.

 

[LeGenD]

Hi, Extended ukraine war is due a blunder in decision making by Putin---. His generals had proposed a Blitzkrieg---. Putin wanted to be nice and slow give ukrainians a chance to accept the deal---. What is happening now is what happens when civilians interfere in the decisions made by the generals---. His generals would have wrapped up this war within 2-4 weeks if they had their way---.

Putin did not impose any restriction on Russian army, it failed in Kyiv:

The Battle of Hostomel Airport: A Key Moment in Russia’s Defeat in Kyiv

The actions of individual commanders, soldiers, and citizens can and did have a profound impact in a pivotal battle that would help decide the course of the war

www.cnas.org

The battle of Hostomel: How Ukraine’s unlikely victory changed the course of the war - National | Globalnews.ca

Just how Ukraine, many times outnumbered, thwarted the seizure of Antonov Airport and forced Russia into a war of attrition, has become the subject of widespread veneration

globalnews.ca

 

[ghazi52]

Terrorism resurges due to past mistakes, says PM Shehbaz​

‘I say without fear that the army chief and I are working as one, with a shared goal of advancing Pakistan’

News Desk
August 21, 2024

....

Blaming same Pakistan Army ,but, pleasing Munir.
Real Boot Polish ....

 

[MastanKhan]

Putin did not impose any restriction on Russian army, it failed in Kyiv:

The Battle of Hostomel Airport: A Key Moment in Russia’s Defeat in Kyiv

The actions of individual commanders, soldiers, and citizens can and did have a profound impact in a pivotal battle that would help decide the course of the war

www.cnas.org

The battle of Hostomel: How Ukraine’s unlikely victory changed the course of the war - National | Globalnews.ca

Just how Ukraine, many times outnumbered, thwarted the seizure of Antonov Airport and forced Russia into a war of attrition, has become the subject of widespread veneration

globalnews.ca

Hi,

And when was that---how many months into the war?????

 

[SteppeWolff]

Putin did not impose any restriction on Russian army, it failed in Kyiv:

The Battle of Hostomel Airport: A Key Moment in Russia’s Defeat in Kyiv

The actions of individual commanders, soldiers, and citizens can and did have a profound impact in a pivotal battle that would help decide the course of the war

www.cnas.org

The battle of Hostomel: How Ukraine’s unlikely victory changed the course of the war - National | Globalnews.ca

Just how Ukraine, many times outnumbered, thwarted the seizure of Antonov Airport and forced Russia into a war of attrition, has become the subject of widespread veneration

globalnews.ca

Invading Ukraine with 150k Russian Troops was definitely a retarded decision to say the least, broken logistics on top of that, no concept of combined Arms offensive and RuAF operating like a third tier force.

More interesting is the rapid adaptability of the Russian forces, judging by their performance from the early months of the invasion, they should have been routed by now, atleast according to Western Analysts, it's going in the opposite direction, albiet slowly.

 

[j_hungary]

Agreed

@MMM-E
South Korea lacks geographical depth and North Korea is a king of deadly long range MBRL and long range deadly artillery..... man artillery guns number alone is 20k in their military which is scary and they will level all that hi-tech airforce of SK on the ground itself within first few hours of war.... China can very well help them with Intel to make these attacks a sureshot success.....

It depends on how the war progress.

Artillery heavy wars are slow (again, just look at how Russia maneuver their troop), and area focus, because your artillery would need to be in the vicinity of where you want to attack from. As such, it is very prone to airstrike. Which is what the South are very good at.

The 20K artillery may be an impressive number, but it wouldn't actually work because you either need to coordinate your attack with infantry (So basically you drop PGM round in as your infantry advance) or you want to saturate your target with artillery and then move your troop in, North lack the capability to do the first thing (Otherwise they wouldn't need 20k artillery piece) and it would be a nasty surprise for the North Korean artillery if the South can enforce a blanketed Aerial Exclusion Zone.

As for they will level ROK air force on the ground.....Well, South Korea lack the depth, but we aren't talking about the entire South Korea is 40km in length, they can't shoot over their range, South Korea end-to-end is about 400km long, there are tons of airbase is going to be untouched by North Korean artillery. You are talking about 40km range for Artillery and <80km range for MLRS

Plus, some of these airbases are US Air Base, they either have to attack them and then invite angry American with 3 Carrier Battlegroup to fight against them, or they will have to left them alone and let the South use them to fight back.......

North have no chances overrun the south as long as the ROKAF is active, and they can only remotely pushes that back if the Chinese decided to make it their own problem.

 

[j_hungary]

Putin did not impose any restriction on Russian army, it failed in Kyiv:

The Battle of Hostomel Airport: A Key Moment in Russia’s Defeat in Kyiv

The actions of individual commanders, soldiers, and citizens can and did have a profound impact in a pivotal battle that would help decide the course of the war

www.cnas.org

The battle of Hostomel: How Ukraine’s unlikely victory changed the course of the war - National | Globalnews.ca

Just how Ukraine, many times outnumbered, thwarted the seizure of Antonov Airport and forced Russia into a war of attrition, has become the subject of widespread veneration

globalnews.ca

The initial Ukrainian offensive phase is the typical "head out run tail" situation, last seen in WW2, during Operation Market Garden.

The decisive blow didn't come because Putin (or whoever in charge of that war) overestimate their ability to A.) Supply their troop. B.) Lead the attack in a timely manner.

Resulting the assault of the Hostomel Airport become completely unsupported, Because their heavies are almost 100 miles away when the Air Assault operation was going ahead, and Russia can't support it with Air power alone, similar to what happened to the Allied when the 30th Armor Corp was fighting thru all the bridges the Allied Paratrooper took during Market Garden, the result is while Arnhem was taken, they can't hold it from the German. Same things happen here, the late arrival of the 1st Guard Army would mean the Airport is contested while they are finally manage to take the airport, but it was so badly damage that it cannot be used for forward operation.

It would have not been an issue except Putin is banking on their force be able to take Kyiv with minimal resistance. And once that failed (which last for 41 days) they literally wasted that 41 days, by reinforcing a failed front, instead they should have take those troop that attack Kyiv and thru Sumy to the South and spearhead their advance in Donbas, had they done it that way, Russia is probably threatening Kramatosk with ground troop right now, instead that few months of failed operation and another month redeployment allow the Ukrainian to reinforce their own line

This is a typical example of power ranking mean nothing if you don't know how to use your "power" to fight a war.

 

[j_hungary]

Invading Ukraine with 150k Russian Troops was definitely a retarded decision to say the least, broken logistics on top of that, no concept of combined Arms offensive and RuAF operating like a third tier force.

More interesting is the rapid adaptability of the Russian forces, judging by their performance from the early months of the invasion, they should have been routed by now, atleast according to Western Analysts, it's going in the opposite direction, albiet slowly.

That's because they can't afford a force bigger than that. I mean if they make a mess with the logistic with that 150k force, what do you think will happen if the Russian bring in 500,000 troop?

The issue is, they could have made it a lot less costly as it should be, and by all account, it should have been a cake walk if they use their troop wisely, both weren't the case, and the result is we are still talking about this 2.6 years down the road when it should have been done in a year or 2 max. The sheer number of Russian troops is the reason why this war is still ongoing, not because the Russian are more technological advance or because they are genius tactician. This is not an adaptability issue simply because I wouldn't say you should have done in the first place and then mess it up and now somehow get back to course is being adaptable. It's call stop being stupid.........

 

[SteppeWolff]

The sheer number of Russian troops is the reason why this war is still ongoing

It's also ongoing cause of dumb decisions by the Ukrainian military leadership. They gave in to the attritional warfare waged in by the Russians and the results are Infront of you, losing key fortifications and logistic hubs in Donbass, at this rate the Kramatorsk-Slavyansk front is gonna get outflanked from the Torestsk front. What after that?

 

[j_hungary]

It's also ongoing cause of dumb decisions by the Ukrainian military leadership. They gave in to the attritional warfare waged in by the Russians and the results are Infront of you, losing key fortifications and logistic hubs in Donbass, at this rate the Kramatorsk-Slavyansk front is gonna get outflanked from the Torestsk front. What after that?

You are assuming the Russian can go that far.

Look at it this way

2022 - Battle of Sievierodonetsk (Pop 99070) - 49 days
2023 - Battle of Bakhmut (Pop 77094) - Officially 10 months, major offensive takes around 5 months and 2 weeks
2024 - Battle of Avdiivka (Pop 31392) - 4 months 1 week.

The progress Russia made was actually slower and gain are smaller in the group of land that they should have been taken back in 2022. The issue here is, those aren't taken with no/light casualty. How long does it take for the next objective? I mean, it's been 2 months since the Russian push into Toretsk, and the fighting is still ongoing. And you are talking about Toretsk is just a 6 x 10 km village, and it is taking the Russian 2 (TWO) months of fighting and still about 90%ing Niu York, and that's not the main event either. On the other hand, it's only an important objective or logistic hub when you have taken it in a timely manner, because it wasn't the place that's important, it's what inside, you denied the hub to be used regionally, but it wouldn't be the case when you give them plenty of time to relocate the hub somewhere else.

The reason why Ukraine is forced to indulge into Russian attritional warfare is because they lack the equipment to make a maneuver move, don't get me wrong, they are capable to do that, just look at how they roll over Kursk. The issue here is, Russia have maybe 10K force in Kursk, you only need about 4k force to outmaneuver it. The bulk of Russia force in Donbas is about 300k-400k strong, you are going to need a couple of Armor Division to try to outflank them, that's the division the Ukrainian don't have. Depending on whether or not Ukraine can re-constitute their Air Force, because if they can, with 100 or so F-16 backed up with Su-27 and Su-24, unless Russian Air Force are willing to come out and fight the Ukrainian, that would make those Russian troop in a bad situation even worse.

 

[nahtanbob]

These rankings have to be qualified based on

1. power projection capabilities - how far can you project ? how much force can you project ?
A lot of countries have little interest in power projection.

2. defensive capabilities - how well can you defend ?

3. geography based
The South Korean army is formidable for a reason - North Korea. British army is what it is. But very few powers have crossed the English Channel in recent times to test the British Army on its native soil.

Otherwise the whole thread is a theoretical exercise

 

[SteppeWolff]

Look at it this way

2022 - Battle of Sievierodonetsk (Pop 99070) - 49 days
2023 - Battle of Bakhmut (Pop 77094) - Officially 10 months, major offensive takes around 5 months and 2 weeks
2024 - Battle of Avdiivka (Pop 31392) - 4 months 1 week.

I understand what you mean but look at it this way, Sievierodonetsk, Bakhmut, Advivka, Soledar, all were occupied with huge losses, but they also were fortified over a span of 8 years, many among em key logistical hubs, Pokrovsk is soon gonna get occupied, and it was heavily fortified and was being used as a staging point, Niu York is already done.
My point was, all of these heavily fortified cities, altough their pre-war population was small, they still are the main fortifications and they are getting overrun. After them, Kursk like scenario would play out with open fields and not the Donbass level of fortifications.

 

[MastanKhan]

Invading Ukraine with 150k Russian Troops was definitely a retarded decision to say the least, broken logistics on top of that, no concept of combined Arms offensive and RuAF operating like a third tier force.

More interesting is the rapid adaptability of the Russian forces, judging by their performance from the early months of the invasion, they should have been routed by now, atleast according to Western Analysts, it's going in the opposite direction, albiet slowly.

Hi,

Russia gave a month to a month and a half warning to Ukraine---the west loaded it up with weapons to counter the attack---.

 

[SteppeWolff]

Ukraine---the west loaded it up with weapons to counter the attack---.

Yes sir, and even with that much help, an Army's worth of equipment has been destroyed many times over, Western aid is the ventilator Ukraine is running on right now.

 

[j_hungary]

I understand what you mean but look at it this way, Sievierodonetsk, Bakhmut, Advivka, Soledar, all were occupied with huge losses, but they also were fortified over a span of 8 years, many among em key logistical hubs, Pokrovsk is soon gonna get occupied, and it was heavily fortified and was being used as a staging point, Niu York is already done.
My point was, all of these heavily fortified cities, altough their pre-war population was small, they still are the main fortifications and they are getting overrun. After them, Kursk like scenario would play out with open fields and not the Donbass level of fortifications.

Well, you missed the point completely.

Strategic important places are only important when you have to work your way thru, say for example, you denied a logistic hub and it will severe the logistic capability when you are fighting. That's the advantage to you.

But again, that only work A.) If you take them in a timely manner, if I can move all my store out to somewhere else before you attack, then it wouldn't be a logistic hub, it would just be some place. B.) It wouldn't work if the entire operation is banking on occupying every inch of Donbas. Because Russia is going to have to fight everywhere, logistic hub or not, you still need to be able to either attack them in a linear fashion, or you try to outmaneuver your enemy, and Russian military had not once outmaneuvered Ukrainian in the field, which mean Russia have to take town after town, which mean whichever town behind the current Russian objective will be the one supplying the Ukrainian in the line, until there are no more town to take.

On the other hand, what kind of progress you are looking at? Say by the end of this year Russia took Prorovsk (Which is a big ask, most likely not going to) Then just look at the map in that area alone.



You have to then go south and try to take Kurahove (Pop 30,000+), cause that's where the Lithium is. And to do that you need to take Ukrainsk (small town, around 10k pop and around 10sqkm) then Hirnyk (another 10k pop around 10 sqkm) and then Kurakhivka (Small rural town, around 3k population) then and only then you can get to Kurahove.

This alone would take 1 to 2 years, if they can manage that. Then what if you want to go north? You need to take Rodynske, Bilytske, Novoekonomichne all those are a series of small town around 5000-10000 population size, which you can fortified in a few month (time it took Russia to take Prorovsk and send troop in, they are no smaller than Bakhmut and Avdiivka, which mean you are expecting similar or slower progress for the Russian to just take this part of the map..

Then you have Toretsk and Charsiv Yar front, first you need to converge on Kostyantynivka once you took Toretsk and Charsiv Yar (its gonna be a few month if they felt at all) Kostyantynivka is a mid-sized city pop around 70k, it's going to be closer to a year for Russia to try to take it, then once you took that, it's Druzhkivka, another mid-sized city with around 70k population. say it take another year to do that. Then you are looking at staring down 1 of the 2 biggest city in Donetsk Region. Kramatorsk ( 600sqkm urban, around 1000 if we count rural settlement, 150k pop), but first, you will have to expand out Westward and take Serhiivka to stop Supply flowing in from the West, that's a small town with 6k population, then there a series of satellite town and small town you need to take between Highway 20 and Motorway 3 in order to encircle the town.


And then the main event itself, a town that size, even if you can take it, it will be a multi-year battle. You are talking about 3 to 5 years to take this in entirety, I mean, it's not Kyiv but it also ain't Bakhmut or Sievierodonetsk either. And after you get that, then you go up and try to take Sloviansk, and again, you have maybe 7 or 8 small settlements before you get to it, and then the main event would be another few years, considering Russia current progress is taking 1 or 2 small settlement per year.



You are talking about decades (At least 10+ years, probably will not be 20, but we'll see) of work, Can Russia really last that long? Putin will probably be dead before that as the dude is 71, so would the next guy have the appetite to have a go?

The thing is, as you can see, Russia takes longer gradually to take a smaller land, which mean the progress is trending down. So even if we assume everything don't go to shit, you are talking about capability declining but the task is increasing, that's not a very good combo here.