Pakistan General Elections 2024

[Olympus81]

In a larger realm, some of you folks need to understand, there are multiple layers to the struggle.

1. On the ground, where all legal avenues are exhausted by PTI on the issue of stolen seats. You guys think PTI does not know they won’t get justice? The point of the exercise is to expose the emperor, and its working.

2. On a middle level, party leaders are in hiding, some apprehended, and there have been a good number of leaders that have emerged and can take on the baton. Dar, Ali Mohammad, Amin Ali, Hammad Azhar, Sher Afzal, Tamoor Jagra, Shandana, Zartaj. These folks have shown incredible fortitude despite the odds. Crux of it is, PTI is going no where any time soon.

3. On the upper level, you have Imran Khan and the leaders declaring they will not take the deal. The establishment is sweating and yearning for a deal, and it seems, no deal was made, hence Shahbaz and Maryam have been imposed. This exposes the emperor further.

So smoke and mirrors. It’s just a matter of when and not if.

For some of you, taking the violent route will just finish the PTI struggle. There is nothing that will come out of taking the violence route. Why go that route when one can achieve the same goal by peaceful means.

 

[Taimoor]

Army itself is not a foreign institution it is formed by Pakistanis so it represents the national psychology of Pakistan in it's epitome related to power and wealth.

If we want to change the army then we have to change the Nation as well. This is where the IK actually succeesed it gave Nation a new sense of realization and new and change attitude with which not only Army but every quarter of the Nation is find difficult to reconcile be it Judiciary, Civil Beraucracy, senior Business leadership or even Traditional religious segments everyone one them consider IK and his followers as someone in overstepping into their domains.

They are doing whatever possible for them to stop this IK phenomena but they could only succeesed if A VIOLENT CLASH is erupted between the Nation and it's Institutions.

So those who understands have bigger responsibilities to keep the situation in check wo Kha te hai na Urdu main " عذابِ آگاہی " they have to suffer the theist for the nation

موج بڑھے یا آندھی آئے ، دیا جلائے رکھنا ہے
گھر کی خاطر سو دکھ جھیلیں ، گھر تو آخر اپنا ہے

I respectfully disagree.

On paper army is Pakistan institution but in all practical purpose it is above Pakistani law and constitution. Not one COAS has been given capital punishment for flaunting laws and constitution. An entity which works above all state checks and balances, and now have trampled overwhelming people's will, which for all practical and purpose was the last nail in the coffin. I am sorry, one just can't do that, no matter how powerful one might think of itself. States are build upon it's people first and foremost then comes the institutions.

Anger is boiling through the lid and emotions are running extremely high. Nations has given its verdict and so if you say that nation needs to change first, they already have. Country future cannot be left I the hands of few in GHQ. It must be taken away from them, by force if necessary. And I have no doubt that when push comes to shove, the army will back off, it will not be putting its neck for few generals that's for sure.

 

[DGMO]

2. On a middle level, party leaders are in hiding, some apprehended, and there have been a good number of leaders that have emerged and can take on the baton. Dar, Ali Mohammad, Amin Ali, Hammad Azhar, Sher Afzal, Tamoor Jagra, Shandana, Zartaj. These folks have shown incredible fortitude despite the odds. Crux of it is, PTI is going no where any time soon.

Some good points here. And these leaders you mention are an educated class who are invested in the masses and vice versa, have authenticity and therefore they have a connection with the people and reputation that the PDM totally lacks.

The younger generation (18 - 45) will be looking up to them and their popularity will continue to grow.

One additional point to make is what I see manifesting in Pakistan. I predict the PDM lot will refuse to give space to PTI in Punjab, and the squeeze will continue as te PTI are a threat to their existence. I feel PTI (especially under AAG) will reciprocate this and make it tough for N-League and PPP in KPK.

This will create real fissures and impact the federation with two provinces at loggerheads with one another. It's hugely damaging to unity, but it's the making of those who should've been the defenders of the nation (Khaki Criminals) rather than the destroyers - which they ironically are.

 

[Taimoor]

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/12/asia/pakistan-election-results-military-rebuke-analysis-intl-hnk/index.html

Pakistan’s youth deliver stinging rebuke to military elite by backing jailed leader Khan​

 

[Bear&Bull]

PPP
we want President
We want Speakers
We will sit on treasury's benches
But.....
We are NOT part of the government
They really think that the Awam is so ignorant?

Yes it is. That's the sad part

In a larger realm, some of you folks need to understand, there are multiple layers to the struggle.

1. On the ground, where all legal avenues are exhausted by PTI on the issue of stolen seats. You guys think PTI does not know they won’t get justice? The point of the exercise is to expose the emperor, and its working.

2. On a middle level, party leaders are in hiding, some apprehended, and there have been a good number of leaders that have emerged and can take on the baton. Dar, Ali Mohammad, Amin Ali, Hammad Azhar, Sher Afzal, Tamoor Jagra, Shandana, Zartaj. These folks have shown incredible fortitude despite the odds. Crux of it is, PTI is going no where any time soon.

3. On the upper level, you have Imran Khan and the leaders declaring they will not take the deal. The establishment is sweating and yearning for a deal, and it seems, no deal was made, hence Shahbaz and Maryam have been imposed. This exposes the emperor further.

So smoke and mirrors. It’s just a matter of when and not if.

For some of you, taking the violent route will just finish the PTI struggle. There is nothing that will come out of taking the violence route. Why go that route when one can achieve the same goal by peaceful means.

Everyone is entitles to their own opinion, only time will tell if Gandhi-esque pacifism was the right move in Pakistani context.

I think history will forget this evern happened same way they forgot Al-Zulfiqar. IK would be forgotten like Sardar Bugti and things will go on as they always have. Only long-term change will be importing of public surviellance and internet censorship from Iron Brother China. Just like the Chinese are constantly under state surveillance through public cameras, similar could be applied in Pakistan. China has perfected the art of censorship and state-sponsored public persecution. All Pakistan needs are lots of camera, internet surveillance through AI, internet firewall, a dedicated secret police and to justify all of it as defending the country or defending Islamic values from the west.

If people can't speak, can't hear and can't think then they can't rebel. A qaum which has failed to come out and fight even after being fully aware of the scenario would never revolt when flow of information is controlled PRC-style.

Islamic Republic of Pakistan is dead, People's Republic of Pakistan starts now.

 

[Olympus81]

Some good points here. And these leaders you mention are an educated class who are invested in the masses and vice versa, have authenticity and therefore they have a connection with the people and reputation that the PDM totally lacks.

The younger generation (18 - 45) will be looking up to them and their popularity will continue to grow.

One additional point to make is what I see manifesting in Pakistan. I predict the PDM lot will refuse to give space to PTI in Punjab, and the squeeze will continue as te PTI are a threat to their existence. I feel PTI (especially under AAG) will reciprocate this and make it tough for N-League and PPP in KPK.

This will create real fissures and impact the federation with two provinces at loggerheads with one another. It's hugely damaging to unity, but it's the making of those who should've been the defenders of the nation (Khaki Criminals) rather than the destroyers - which they ironically are.

There will be pitch battles and PTI have shown they can survive the onslaught. Post NCV, PTI has been consolidating on street level.

You may have answered some of your question. The next batch of young Pakistanis that will be eligible to vote 5 years from now (may be even sooner) is lopsided pro PTI and couple it with the boomers that will be going six feet under. All stars seem to be aligning, aren’t they.

Going full retard at this juncture, will be a cardinal sin on PTI’s part. Absolutely no need to clash with the establishment. The May 9 drama that is being trumpeted every now and then resulted in the so-called perpetrators losing 40 lives and the victims suffered zilch.

 

[DGMO]

There will be pitch battles and PTI have shown they can survive the onslaught. Post NCV, PTI has been consolidating on street level.

You may have answered some of your question. The next batch of young Pakistanis that will be eligible to vote 5 years from now (may be even sooner) is lopsided pro PTI and couple it with the boomers that will be going six feet under. All stars seem to be aligning, aren’t they.

Going full retard at this juncture, will be a cardinal sin on PTI’s part. Absolutely no need to clash with the establishment. The May 9 drama that is being trumpeted every now and then resulted in the so-called perpetrators losing 40 lives and the victims suffered zilch.

I totally agree about remaining calm and being seen as the mature political party who solves its battles through peaceful and democratic norms (however lacking they are). That will get it support and sympathy internally and externally.

Right now, the regime needs the excuse to continue the onslaught and fascism, but we now have much greater awareness internationally with what has happened on the rigging front. Given The Economist and FT are widely reporting the junta's excesses and rigging, and can be said to be two of the most prestigious and reputable news titles (FT always ranks No.1), then the PTI has significant support and goodwill.

It can't and shouldn't look to toss that away with short-sighted clashes, however tempting they may be.

PTI's approach through the media, on social media, and engaging with the judiciary will only continue to expose the bad actors. And that's to their continued benefit.

 

[Waz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1757484926725767354

Amazing, is there a longer version of this?

 

[Olympus81]

Good points.

One point we also need to consider is that the Pakistan military is not a single cell amoeba. Every new Chief comes with his own perspective and to add, there are fissures within it, that compel the institution towards a certain direction.

We have seen some overtures towards PTI by establishment but they don’t get the larger picture. For a new Pakistan to prosper, they need to operate within their constitutional limits. Thats an unknown factor. At this moment they don’t realize it because it’s self serving. When Pakistan is nearer to the anecdotal cliff, who knows.

 

[DGMO]

For a new Pakistan to prosper, they need to operate within their constitutional limits.

And that's where the problem will always exist as they have far outgrown what their prime role is, and now can't cede any space. So having heads of PTA, SUPARCO or NADRA etc. as a Lt Gen., growing real estate and all else, agriculture being the latest, it's all never ending. And then of course their favourite venture and past time - politics.

How they can row back from that when their tentacles are so widespread seems impossible for me. In fact, it's only been growing over the years. But things are definitely different this time:

1) The hatred towards the Military is unprecedented and the mass rigging and PDM 2.0 imposition will only increase that.
2) They are totally exposed for who they are and what they've done.
3) PTI and IK's popularity is off the charts, way more in excess of the Khaki's
4) They can't control social media / YouTubers who have significant reach and the flow of information which will expose them daily

All of these will continue to haunt them both short and long term.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[ghazi52]

Rauf Klasra
@KlasraRauf

کل رات سے نواز لیگ کی سوشل میڈیا مہم پسند آئی ہے۔صرف ستر اسی سیٹوں ساتھ بھائی وزیراعظم، بیٹی وزیراعلی پنجاب،سارے MNAs وزیر مرکز اور پنجاب پر مکمل کنٹرول کے باوجود یہ تاثر دیا جارہا ہے نواز شریف صاحب ساتھ زیادتی ہوگئی۔ سب کچھ حاصل کرنے کے باوجود وہ مظلوم بنا دیے گئے ہیں۔ اس ملک میں کچھ بکے نہ بکے مظلومیت، ہمدردری اور مذہبی ٹچ ضرور بکتا ہے۔بیچی جائو سارے​

 

[Taimoor]

And that's where the problem will always exist as they have far outgrown what their prime role is, and now can't cede any space. So having heads of PTA, SUPARCO or NADRA etc. as a Lt Gen., growing real estate and all else, agriculture being the latest, it's all never ending. And then of course their favourite venture and past time - politics.

How they can row back from that when their tentacles are so widespread seems impossible for me. In fact, it's only been growing over the years. But things are definitely different this time:

1) The hatred towards the Military is unprecedented and the mass rigging and PDM 2.0 imposition will only increase that.
2) They are totally exposed for who they are and what they've done.
3) PTI and IK's popularity is off the charts, way more in excess of the Khaki's
4) They can't control social media / YouTubers who have significant reach and the flow of information which will expose them daily

All of these will continue to haunt them both short and long term.

It is already pointed out by several analysts that the whole potohar region, the cradle of army, has overwhelmingly voted by PTI.

It can be safely deduced that rank and files are with IK. When push comes to shove, generals can be easily weeded out from the institution which by enlarge is still patriotic.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[ghazi52]

The people’s mandate seems to have been stolen yet again​

Zahid Hussain
February 14, 2024

The security establishment’s domination in the anticipated political set-up is likely to strengthen in a politically divided country.

IT was perhaps the most consequential election in Pakistan’s recent history. Defying all odds, the voters turned out in record numbers. They have spoken out, loud and clear, and given their verdict. It was a vote for hope and democracy. But the people’s mandate seems to have been stolen yet again.

Events in the run-up to the elections had left little faith in the fairness of the polls. Still, the people came out, breaking down the walls of fear and hoping to bring change through the power of the ballot. The massive turnout of youth and women voters made the difference.

It was a protest vote against political repression and the status quo. Anti-establishment sentiment was quite palpable. The voting trend and initial poll results from Punjab and KP indicated a total rout of parties seen as having the military’s backing, in particular the PML-N. The PTI candidates took the lead in major constituencies.

Yet the final tally showed an incredibly different result. Many of the PML-N heavyweights who were lagging far behind PTI-affiliated candidates till late night were declared the winners the next morning. How this amazing turnaround happened is anybody’s guess. However, it was a different story in KP, where the result could not be altered much. The PTI held its ground in its main bastion.

It is certainly not for the first time that the country has witnessed such a mysterious overnight turnaround of poll results. We saw it, too, in the 2018 elections. It all depends on who is the favourite of the security establishment at the time. There was no doubt that the PTI was the main beneficiary of the ‘hand of God’ in the previous election. But what happened this time has hardly any precedent.

It was a protest vote against political repression and the status quo.

The large-scale poll irregularities have drawn a strong international reaction. The US, UK, and the European Union have separately expressed concerns about Pakistan’s electoral process and urged a probe into the reported irregularities.

But the most damning statement on the elections came from the UN secretary general, who called on the Pakistani authorities and political leaders to resolve the issues related to the election “through the established legal frameworks” and to refrain from taking any action that could raise tensions.