Pakistan Navy | News & Discussions

[ghazi52]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Fatman17]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Fatman17]

https://share.google/QodmjdUEXP8AokAdZ

Maritime power matters for Pakistan

 

[ghazi52]

 

[ghazi52]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[NeptunesVortex]

Yes they are expanding at a quick pace as they are the only service in india with some semblance of competent procurement. But they wont be able to deploy this fleet in 3 or 4 years it would take a decade atleast. PN surface fleet inevitably cant scale up as fast so imo focus should in that time be placed on increasing lethality of existing warships by upgrading weapons and sensors and planning out future ships with more capabilities per hull. Before anyone else mentions it yes Hangors and subs in general are primary weapons against such a force and for such a large csg there would probably be 2-3 subs dedicated just to it engaging from different angles but you have to back them up with long range PN shore and sea based attack vectors along with SS and PAF coordination for accurate sensor and comm coverage to coordinate simaleteneous surface, land based, sub surface and air launched attacks from multiple different vectors. Thats how you kill a CSG

Lmao the amount of fantasy in this scenario is insane. You’re talking like PN was about to steamroll an undefended coastline instead of facing a carrier group sitting behind one of the densest naval AD umbrellas in the region. A single Indian carrier group alone carries more credible LR naval air defence than most of PN combined. Massive MR-SAM inventory, layered sensors, supersonic ASHM coverage out to 500-800 km, MiG-29Ks with 800 km combat radius carrying 250+ km anti-ship missiles and that’s before land based IAF support even enters the equation.

Meanwhile your counter is what exactly? A handful of J-10Cs carrying single shot missiles while abandoning frontline air duties?

Ships with patchy AD coverage, limited VLS depth and fleets where half the vessels are carrying point-defence level SAMs. 4 ships with 40 km coverage, 4 with 15 km, rest basically praying nobody notices them.

You guys keep throwing around CM-400AKG and J-10C like it’s some anime superweapon. Even if 20 J-10Cs somehow abandon the main air front and launch one missile each, that’s still just 20 inbound weapons against layered naval air defence specifically designed for saturation engagements.

You guys really don't have an iota of idea how brutal naval warfare becomes once one side gains range dominance and layered AD superiority. Ships aren’t static bunkers. They move, network, jam, decoy, intercept and retaliate simultaneously.

And that “PN victory” fantasy always skips the ending where surviving ships have to deal with follow up strikes from carrier aviation, subs, western naval command assets, and land based IAF support.

Barak-8 already has a combat record against stuff like Iskander-class threats, Sea Eagle profiles and Fatah-type ballistic trajectories with near perfect interception history. Good luck saturating that with limited missile counts. Our primary MR-SAM has already built a reputation intercepting high speed and sea skimming type threats with ridiculous consistency. Trying to brute-force through that with limited missile inventory is the kind of plan that looks amazing on PDF and terrible in actual combat.

By the time AL anti ship missile gets close enough from 250+ km or a Rampage comes in from 150 km, most MiG-29Ks would’ve already launched, turned around and started recovery ops before your response cycle even stabilised.

Then comes the geography problem. And no, you’re not magically keeping 20 J-10Cs on endless naval strike patrols while simultaneously holding the IAF front. JF-17s don’t even have the legs for deep maritime strike against fleets sitting 500-600 km away unless they’re operating at the edge of sanity. Then comes the support layer western based IAF assets that weren’t even tied down in this scenario.

And the funniest part? This entire discussion usually ignores the fact that WNC + land based IAF support from western sector airbases would still exist. The carrier group wouldn’t even be fighting alone.

Is the Indian Navy invincible? Obviously not. But the idea that PN could pull off a successful strike and still retain a functioning surface fleet afterwards is pure fantasy. Most of the fleet would’ve turned into artificial reefs before the dust settled.

 

[NeptunesVortex]

Like in 2019 and 2025, that carrier is going nowhere near Pakistan. This picture represents a submariners targeting dream...

Cute you still post your fantasies here though

You’re talking about coming after carriers while fielding a fleet where huge portions barely have layered air defence in the first place. A navy whose future surface structure still includes ships with point defence SAMs and even platforms with effectively zero meaningful anti-air umbrella is somehow supposed to survive inside a battlespace dominated by MR-SAM grids, AEW coverage, maritime ISR, LR ASHMs, subs and carrier aviation?

You replaced quieter German propulsion architecture with Chinese systems involving more mechanical complexity and acoustic penalties, then act like these boats are going to freely roam against a navy building one of the nastiest ASW ecosystems in the region: P-8Is, Sea Guardians, ASW helis, C295 ASW variants, ACTAS/VDS equipped warships, ASW-SWCs, SMART anti-sub missiles, seabed surveillance expansion and now autonomous subs hunting USVs and drones entering the picture.

Those subs of yours are not becoming apex predators. They’re becoming extremely expensive objects trying not to get triangulated.

Realistically, most PN subs would be forced into layered defensive positioning closer to home waters because once the Arabian Sea ISR web activates, survivability drops fast.

Then there’s the airpower math you guys keep ignoring. JF-17s don’t have the comfortable strike legs for deep maritime operations against a carrier operating 100s of kms offshore with maneuvering freedom. So the carrier killer fantasy of Pakistanis immediately shifts onto J-10Cs.

But here’s the problem: Every J-10C moved toward maritime strike duty is one less aircraft protecting Punjab and the northern air corridor against the IAF. So suddenly your massive naval strike starts cannibalising your own frontline air defence posture. And after all that sacrifice, what’s the saturation volume? 20-ish CM-400AKGs?
That’s it?

You’re trying to break through layered naval air defence systems built specifically to survive saturation warfare using missile counts that barely qualify as a serious swarm attack. Naval combatants don’t just sit there waiting to die. They jam, decoy, maneuver, launch interceptors, split targeting solutions and coordinate fleet defence in real time.

Indian side is operating: • MR-SAM layers with massive inventory depth
• LR anti ship BrahMos strike envelopes moving toward even longer ranges
• MiG-29Ks with 850 km combat radius
• Carrier based interception capability
• Land based IAF support from western airbases
• Western Naval Command assets
• Subs support
• Persistent maritime ISR

And somehow Pakistanis still imagine PN casually pushing outward into offensive sea-control operations?

That’s why in actual crisis scenarios PN doctrine historically leans toward dispersion, coastal defence, sea denial and asset preservation around Gwadar/Ormara instead of dramatic blue water confrontation fantasies.

Because professional planners understand something PDF warriors don’t: A carrier group is not just one ship. It’s a moving layered combat ecosystem.

And once attrition begins, the imbalance in VLS depth, AD density, ASW coverage, airborne ISR and LR strike capacity becomes viciously obvious very fast.

“They roll in, PN dies” sounds exaggerated until you actually compare fleet depth, AD density, ASW assets, strike radius and sustainment capacity side by side.

 

[kimjongun]

No one apart from delusional warriors are saying PN is gona have a chance against IN on surface level

 

[Corax]

Lmao the amount of fantasy in this scenario is insane. You’re talking like PN was about to steamroll an undefended coastline instead of facing a carrier group sitting behind one of the densest naval AD umbrellas in the region. A single Indian carrier group alone carries more credible LR naval air defence than most of PN combined. Massive MR-SAM inventory, layered sensors, supersonic ASHM coverage out to 500-800 km, MiG-29Ks with 800 km combat radius carrying 250+ km anti-ship missiles and that’s before land based IAF support even enters the equation.

Meanwhile your counter is what exactly? A handful of J-10Cs carrying single shot missiles while abandoning frontline air duties?

Ships with patchy AD coverage, limited VLS depth and fleets where half the vessels are carrying point-defence level SAMs. 4 ships with 40 km coverage, 4 with 15 km, rest basically praying nobody notices them.

You guys keep throwing around CM-400AKG and J-10C like it’s some anime superweapon. Even if 20 J-10Cs somehow abandon the main air front and launch one missile each, that’s still just 20 inbound weapons against layered naval air defence specifically designed for saturation engagements.

You guys really don't have an iota of idea how brutal naval warfare becomes once one side gains range dominance and layered AD superiority. Ships aren’t static bunkers. They move, network, jam, decoy, intercept and retaliate simultaneously.

And that “PN victory” fantasy always skips the ending where surviving ships have to deal with follow up strikes from carrier aviation, subs, western naval command assets, and land based IAF support.

Barak-8 already has a combat record against stuff like Iskander-class threats, Sea Eagle profiles and Fatah-type ballistic trajectories with near perfect interception history. Good luck saturating that with limited missile counts. Our primary MR-SAM has already built a reputation intercepting high speed and sea skimming type threats with ridiculous consistency. Trying to brute-force through that with limited missile inventory is the kind of plan that looks amazing on PDF and terrible in actual combat.

By the time AL anti ship missile gets close enough from 250+ km or a Rampage comes in from 150 km, most MiG-29Ks would’ve already launched, turned around and started recovery ops before your response cycle even stabilised.

Then comes the geography problem. And no, you’re not magically keeping 20 J-10Cs on endless naval strike patrols while simultaneously holding the IAF front. JF-17s don’t even have the legs for deep maritime strike against fleets sitting 500-600 km away unless they’re operating at the edge of sanity. Then comes the support layer western based IAF assets that weren’t even tied down in this scenario.

And the funniest part? This entire discussion usually ignores the fact that WNC + land based IAF support from western sector airbases would still exist. The carrier group wouldn’t even be fighting alone.

Is the Indian Navy invincible? Obviously not. But the idea that PN could pull off a successful strike and still retain a functioning surface fleet afterwards is pure fantasy. Most of the fleet would’ve turned into artificial reefs before the dust settled.

A lot of copium and hot air. If your navy was so confident, why didn't it do anything last may? I thought it conquered Lahore port?

 

[Bilal]

india at it again, using carrot to try to scuttle PN SWAT program?

India revives plan to acquire small submarines. Foreign design or indigenous solution is the question

EXCLUSIVE | Indian Navy has reinitiated discussions with at least 2 Indian shipyards for procurement of vessels, meant for covert missions by the force's elite Marine Commandos.

theprint.in

@Ak01

 

[Toxic]

india at it again, using carrot to try to scuttle PN SWAT program?

India revives plan to acquire small submarines. Foreign design or indigenous solution is the question

EXCLUSIVE | Indian Navy has reinitiated discussions with at least 2 Indian shipyards for procurement of vessels, meant for covert missions by the force's elite Marine Commandos.

theprint.in

@Ak01

These are going be tiny probably a few dozen tons, PN coastal subs will 800+ tons so their is no competition there, also Leonardo and ficantari is probably getting more business from Pakistan then even what the Indian might give

 

[Pakistan First]

Lmao the amount of fantasy in this scenario is insane. You’re talking like PN was about to steamroll an undefended coastline instead of facing a carrier group sitting behind one of the densest naval AD umbrellas in the region. A single Indian carrier group alone carries more credible LR naval air defence than most of PN combined. Massive MR-SAM inventory, layered sensors, supersonic ASHM coverage out to 500-800 km, MiG-29Ks with 800 km combat radius carrying 250+ km anti-ship missiles and that’s before land based IAF support even enters the equation.

Meanwhile your counter is what exactly? A handful of J-10Cs carrying single shot missiles while abandoning frontline air duties?

Ships with patchy AD coverage, limited VLS depth and fleets where half the vessels are carrying point-defence level SAMs. 4 ships with 40 km coverage, 4 with 15 km, rest basically praying nobody notices them.

You guys keep throwing around CM-400AKG and J-10C like it’s some anime superweapon. Even if 20 J-10Cs somehow abandon the main air front and launch one missile each, that’s still just 20 inbound weapons against layered naval air defence specifically designed for saturation engagements.

You guys really don't have an iota of idea how brutal naval warfare becomes once one side gains range dominance and layered AD superiority. Ships aren’t static bunkers. They move, network, jam, decoy, intercept and retaliate simultaneously.

And that “PN victory” fantasy always skips the ending where surviving ships have to deal with follow up strikes from carrier aviation, subs, western naval command assets, and land based IAF support.

Barak-8 already has a combat record against stuff like Iskander-class threats, Sea Eagle profiles and Fatah-type ballistic trajectories with near perfect interception history. Good luck saturating that with limited missile counts. Our primary MR-SAM has already built a reputation intercepting high speed and sea skimming type threats with ridiculous consistency. Trying to brute-force through that with limited missile inventory is the kind of plan that looks amazing on PDF and terrible in actual combat.

By the time AL anti ship missile gets close enough from 250+ km or a Rampage comes in from 150 km, most MiG-29Ks would’ve already launched, turned around and started recovery ops before your response cycle even stabilised.

Then comes the geography problem. And no, you’re not magically keeping 20 J-10Cs on endless naval strike patrols while simultaneously holding the IAF front. JF-17s don’t even have the legs for deep maritime strike against fleets sitting 500-600 km away unless they’re operating at the edge of sanity. Then comes the support layer western based IAF assets that weren’t even tied down in this scenario.

And the funniest part? This entire discussion usually ignores the fact that WNC + land based IAF support from western sector airbases would still exist. The carrier group wouldn’t even be fighting alone.

Is the Indian Navy invincible? Obviously not. But the idea that PN could pull off a successful strike and still retain a functioning surface fleet afterwards is pure fantasy. Most of the fleet would’ve turned into artificial reefs before the dust settled.

I like this level of fantasies by indians. Because this gives them maximum shock when reality strikes.

I remember a time, many years ago the indians used to worship SU-30 as Raptor of East. In 2019, when reality strikes the Raptor of East title was changed to AMRAAMs dodger. When asked indian airforce by indian media why you didn't shoot back, IAf said we never got a lock signal, PAF was outgunning and outranging us. Then comes Rafales and SPECTRA and this and that. Again same results, In 2025 all types of India's fighter jets saw their ultimate fate. Multiple Rafales, SU-30, M2K, mig-29. Any type left? Oh yes Tejas! because it never dared to fly during war.

If you guys had so much confidence on naval domain then you should have tried in 2025 instead making fantasized theories. Real world is different. That joke of an aircraft carrier group can't dare to get close in presence of PAF maritime squadrons and PN submarine fleet.

 

[Bilal]

These are going be tiny probably a few dozen tons, PN coastal subs will 800+ tons so their is no competition there, also Leonardo is probably getting more business from Pakistan then even what the Indian might give

They are trying. They have reached out to Fincantieri, how successful they are is another question.

 

[Starlord]

Still no news of Sea Sultan?

 

[puttputt]

They are trying. They have reached out to Fincantieri, how successful they are is another question.

PN confirmed that SWATS are coming; we just don't know how many, when, and who is building them. They've kept the program deep under wraps, for good reason.