Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion

[FuturePAF]

this guy is a retard... he is really fucked in his head.

Yes, but when they cart him out to posture, they are also trying to calibrate their messaging. With this guy, it’s still the less serious types talking, but it’s an indication that it’s a step in their narrative escalation ladder.

By contrast, many many years ago, I got to hear/see a former Israeli minister (I don’t remember the post, possibly defense or foreign minister) speak, sitting mere feet away from him. He was more of a “left wing” Mizrahi guy if I remember correctly. The point being, when something serious is being conveyed the tone is completely different. It’s more concrete and to the point. Same way with the Shayetet 13 guy I got to talk to; about scuba diving into Gaza; focus on the mission, get in and get out as fast as possible, ignore the sharks.

 

[LC150]

Yes, but when they cart him out to posture, they are also trying to calibrate their messaging. With this guy, it’s still the less serious types talking, but it’s an indication that it’s a step in their narrative escalation ladder.

By contrast, many many years ago, I got to hear/see a former Israeli minister (I don’t remember the post, possibly defense or foreign minister) speak, sitting mere feet away from him. He was more of a “left wing” Mizrahi guy if I remember correctly. The point being, when something serious is being conveyed the tone is completely different. It’s more concrete and to the point. Same way with the Shayetet 13 guy I got to talk to; about scuba diving into Gaza; focus on the mission, get in and get out as fast as possible, ignore the sharks.

Israelis threaten Obama they would use nukes against iran... Obama called their bluff..

this is nothing new ... the fact you threaten nukes means you really have no other option on the table

 

[FuturePAF]

Israelis threaten Obama they would use nukes against iran... Obama called their bluff..

this is nothing new ... the fact you threaten nukes means you really have no other option on the table

There is a nuclear sabre rattling escalation ladder. The Russians have been doing this for years. There are still a menu of options.

The following is per google:

Phase 1: Verbal Signaling & Coercion

• Sub-threshold rhetoric: Vague warnings about "grave consequences" or "destroying adversaries" to deter involvement in a conflict.
• Doctrinal ambiguity: Publicly updating nuclear doctrines to lower the threshold for legitimate nuclear use.
• Treaty suspension: Withdrawing from arms control agreements (e.g., exiting the New START Treaty) to signal unconstrained capabilities.

Phase 2: Demonstrative Actions

• Strategic drills: Conducting large-scale military exercises focused on the use of tactical (non-strategic) nuclear weapons.
• Forward deployments: Moving nuclear warheads to allied territory or forward-operating bases.
• Resumption of testing: Conducting explosive nuclear tests to demonstrate resolve and technical capability.

Phase 3: Intrawar Deterrence

• Show of force: Firing unarmed ballistic missiles or performing high-altitude detonations as a visible warning.
• "Escalate to de-escalate": A theoretical strategy where a state detonates a low-yield nuclear weapon on a non-populated area or a strictly military target to compel the enemy to sue for peace.

Phase 4: Limited Nuclear War

• Counter-force strikes: Using low-to-medium yield tactical weapons against concentrated military installations, naval fleets, or logistical hubs without targeting civilian populations.

Phase 5: General Nuclear War

• Counter-value strikes: Full-scale, uncontrolled employment of strategic nuclear arsenals against the adversary's economic and population centers (often described as "spasm war").

 

[LC150]

There is a nuclear sabre rattling escalation ladder. The Russians have been doing this for years. There are still a menu of options.

The following is per google:

Phase 1: Verbal Signaling & Coercion

• Sub-threshold rhetoric: Vague warnings about "grave consequences" or "destroying adversaries" to deter involvement in a conflict.
• Doctrinal ambiguity: Publicly updating nuclear doctrines to lower the threshold for legitimate nuclear use.
• Treaty suspension: Withdrawing from arms control agreements (e.g., exiting the New START Treaty) to signal unconstrained capabilities.

Phase 2: Demonstrative Actions

• Strategic drills: Conducting large-scale military exercises focused on the use of tactical (non-strategic) nuclear weapons.
• Forward deployments: Moving nuclear warheads to allied territory or forward-operating bases.
• Resumption of testing: Conducting explosive nuclear tests to demonstrate resolve and technical capability.

Phase 3: Intrawar Deterrence

• Show of force: Firing unarmed ballistic missiles or performing high-altitude detonations as a visible warning.
• "Escalate to de-escalate": A theoretical strategy where a state detonates a low-yield nuclear weapon on a non-populated area or a strictly military target to compel the enemy to sue for peace.

Phase 4: Limited Nuclear War

• Counter-force strikes: Using low-to-medium yield tactical weapons against concentrated military installations, naval fleets, or logistical hubs without targeting civilian populations.

Phase 5: General Nuclear War

• Counter-value strikes: Full-scale, uncontrolled employment of strategic nuclear arsenals against the adversary's economic and population centers (often described as "spasm war").

true this makes sense in a global superpower power senerio .

but in a tinpot country like Israel where it need every thing to survive from the US...it sounds almost childish.

 

[FuturePAF]

true this makes sense in a global superpower power senerio .

but in a tinpot country like Israel where it need every thing to survive from the US...it sounds almost childish.

They know how to work the US political system to back them up when and where necessary. The same goes for the major European powers.

They even have Russia compromised, which is why you don’t see Russia speak up for old allies in the Middle East more and more, in the post Soviet period. Syria was Russia’s limits in the Middle East.

 

[PakistanLVR]

They know how to work the US political system to back them up when and where necessary. The same goes for the major European powers.

They even have Russia compromised, which is why you don’t see Russia speak up for old allies in the Middle East more and more, in the post Soviet period. Syria was Russia’s limits in the Middle East.

it could also be a fatigue on the Russian's part after the Syria., and fully occupied in Ukraine. Either way the Russians hit way below their weight. They have the technology, the weapons, the know-how but really just contend with way things are.
On a personal note, glad Syria went back to the Sunnis. its the natural order of things. They created these post WW2 countries where a hated minority sits on top of the majority which creates many social problems and lays the fruits of future conflict. This was done rather strategically by the Brits and France.