Pakistan's real problem is very poor institutions - not political

AsaRad1

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Why is every institution/idara in Pakistan so EXTREMELY weak? (An unfunny joke in straight forward terms)

There's a general trend where they are so unprofessional with plenty of unskilled/unqualified workers that you can hardly even think anyone takes anything serious in this country.

This can be seen across minor irrelevant institutions for everyday tasks, to very important ones related to national security or economy!

Everyone pins blame on single individuals or political events but I believe the above is the core fundamental issue for why this country is stagnant (collapsing)

There's no sense of professionalism or high standard (in relation to other countries national institutes) in how they operate - everything is done hastily, lazily, rushed and to a very poor standard with no attention to detail. You can notice in small stuff like their media releases. Poor English, spokesperson won't have a clue of what he is saying himself, or poor quality media.

PAKISTAN SHOULD SERIOUSLY WORK WITH FRIENDLY COUNTRIES LIKE TURKEY & CHINA AND REVAMP NATIONAL INSTITUTIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND NEW TRAINING URGENTLY.


@Signalian
@RescueRanger
@_NOBODY_
@Panzerkiel
@Oscar
@Falcon26
 
Source:
Opinion piece
My uncle had problem with NADRA and with some business he also said pak is like stuck in old ages, no sane person would waste time there.

Whole country is like bunch of uncles at a tea gathering doing whatever lazy stuff but they call it idara

ZERO PROFESSIONALISM, ZERO STANDARDS. They flex non achievements. He say India will **** them up in few decades.
 
Whatever Pakistanis touch, is transformed in 💩.

2 number work is Olympic National Game !


It’s us the problem.
Selfishness and short cuts is a national mentality in general. Even if ANYONE tries to go against it the system either crushes them or throws them out.
 
My uncle had problem with NADRA and with some business he also said pak is like stuck in old ages, no sane person would waste time there.

Whole country is like bunch of uncles at a tea gathering doing whatever lazy stuff but they call it idara

ZERO PROFESSIONALISM, ZERO STANDARDS. They flex non achievements. He say India will **** them up in few decades.
FBR itself stopped digitization..
ECP didn't allow EVMs..
Qazi doesn't see TV etc and just needs documentary evidence, not videos.
 
Why is every institution/idara in Pakistan so EXTREMELY weak? (An unfunny joke in straight forward terms)

There's a general trend where they are so unprofessional with plenty of unskilled/unqualified workers that you can hardly even think anyone takes anything serious in this country.

This can be seen across minor irrelevant institutions for everyday tasks, to very important ones related to national security or economy!

Everyone pins blame on single individuals or political events but I believe the above is the core fundamental issue for why this country is stagnant (collapsing)

There's no sense of professionalism or high standard (in relation to other countries national institutes) in how they operate - everything is done hastily, lazily, rushed and to a very poor standard with no attention to detail. You can notice in small stuff like their media releases. Poor English, spokesperson won't have a clue of what he is saying himself, or poor quality media.

PAKISTAN SHOULD SERIOUSLY WORK WITH FRIENDLY COUNTRIES LIKE TURKEY & CHINA AND REVAMP NATIONAL INSTITUTIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND NEW TRAINING URGENTLY.


@Signalian
@RescueRanger
@_NOBODY_
@Panzerkiel
@Oscar
@Falcon26
A very long time back, before we were born, there was a man called Ayub Khan, who saw that the country Pakistan's existence is always under danger from India. That made military the preferred institution of the country. No military, no Pakistan. On the other hand, the system of personal contacts (sifarish) and bribery was inherited from the Mughals, thrived in British times to some extent and then flourished from 1947 in the civil sector. This is evident from the fact how 65 years on Malik Riaz challenged if even a small business can be set up without bribery and sifarish. Coming back to Ayub Khan- the man overtook the country and did what he thought was best as in building industrial complexes within the country for progression using resources from the Army as he thought that Civil departments of Govt and private companies/business were inept and failure.

That didn't help in the long run. The military leaders later on found Ayub Khan's action an excuse to throw away democracy at will without realizing Ayub's thinking while the civilian leaders and Govt knew that eventually military will handle the chaos which erupts inside Pakistan or on borders. This was proved wrong in 1971.

Slowly and gradually, Military started becoming strong because it had access to the best technology in Pakistan as well as best teaching instructions including budget and the funds. These funds were the gates opened from China after 1965 with military free weapons/funding lines for arming Pakistan Army. At that point, military started investing in R&D.

I always said Pakistan Military is a system and I maintain it till today. The reason its a system is because civil Govt. or Civil system of any sort-banking, agri, technology, power, engineering, logistics, etc may collapse, but Military won't collapse. why ? because banking-Askari, agri-military lands, power-military MES backups, logistics - NLC/FWO, Engineering- Engineers/Signals etc. The point is that military made a backup of its own for everything in parallel. I just named a few departments. Civil Govt knows it will look towards Military for anything and thus needs to be on good terms with the military.

Why military succeeded and civil failed ? Because not only military had resources, man power, got preference for budget etc, but also that military devised the system through training, discipline, military standards etc to ensure that officers are trained and carry out orders without failure to setup anything that is required. Take NUST for example, all military academic colleges have access to civilian researchers. The civilian students pay NUST to research in different disciplines of R&D.

If today bribery and sifarish ends, the civil system of Govt will collapse. Public will be outraged also since majority of things are done under the table through shortcuts. Actually, Pakistan will cease to exist. Even when military personnel were sent in civil departments like WAPDA, PIA etc, the military failed in front of the system of bribery and sifraish and corruption and other money making techniques from line man to management of these departments and they couldnt be rescued. This is why anything can be done through money in Pakistan while law is pushed aside. The non existent law which is applied on those who are poor thus cannot buy the law. Any MPA, MNA, or affluent person can buy the law. Why should military follow the law ? it has a parallel system in place that civil govt cannot match.

So, no one follows the law in Pakistan. everybody looks for shortcuts. No one wants to work hard except the low tier who have to do it out of compulsion and stop when they become senior.

75 years onwards, the threat of India taking over Pakistan is long gone with advent of nuke, missiles, drones etc, but by this time today military has become the strongest entity in Pakistan so that the Civil Govt and departments are even dependent on it.

In any case, the system benefits any one in department - be it a peon or mid career Govt officer or a top level Director. So why should they change the system ? Eat together.
 
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A very long time back, before we were born, there was a man called Ayub Khan, who saw that the country Pakistan's existence is always under danger from India. That made military the preferred institution of the country. No military, no Pakistan. On the other hand, the system of personal contacts (sifarish) and bribery was inherited from the Mughals, thrived in British times to some extent and then flourished from 1947 in the civil sector. This is evident from the fact how 65 years on Malik Riaz challenged if even a small business can be set up without bribery and sifarish. Coming back to Ayub Khan- the man overtook the country and did what he thought was best as in building industrial complexes within the country for progression using resources from the Army as he thought that Civil departments of Govt and private companies/business were inept and failure.

That didn't help in the long run. The military leaders later on found Ayub Khan's action an excuse to throw away democracy at will without realizing Ayub's thinking while the civilian leaders and Govt knew that eventually military will handle the chaos which erupts inside Pakistan or on borders. This was proved wrong in 1971.

Slowly and gradually, Military started becoming strong because it had access to the best technology in Pakistan as well as best teaching instructions including budget and the funds. These funds were the gates opened from China after 1971 with military weapons for arming Pakistan Army. At that point, military started investing in R&D.

I always said Pakistan Military is a system and I maintain it till today. The reason its a system is because civil Govt. or Civil system of any sort-banking, agri, technology, power, engineering, logistics, etc may collapse, but Military won't collapse. why ? because banking-Askari, agri-military lands, power-military MES backups, logistics - NLC/FWO, Engineering- Engineers/Signals etc. The point is that military made a backup of its own for everything in parallel. I just named a few departments. Civil Govt knows it will look towards Military for anything and thus needs to be on good terms with the military.

Why military succeeded and civil failed ? Because not only military had resources, man power, got preference for budget etc, but also that military devised the system through training, discipline, military standards etc to ensure that officers are trained and carry out orders without failure to setup anything that is required. Take NUST for example, all military academic colleges have access to civilian researchers. The civilian students pay NUST to research in different disciplines of R&D.

If today bribery and sifarish ends, the civil system of Govt will collapse. Public will be outraged also since majority of things are done under the table through shortcuts. Actually, Pakistan will cease to exist. Even when military personnel were sent in civil departments like WAPDA, PIA etc, the military failed in front of the system of bribery and sifraish and corruption and other money making techniques from line man to management of these departments and they couldnt be rescued. This is why anything can be done through money in Pakistan while law is pushed aside. The non existent law which is applied on those who are poor thus cannot buy the law. Any MPA, MNA, or affluent person can buy the law. Why should military follow the law ? it has a parallel system in place that civil govt cannot match.

So, no one follows the law in Pakistan. everybody looks for shortcuts. No one wants to work hard except the low tier who have to do it out of compulsion and stop when they become senior.

75 years onwards, the threat of India taking over Pakistan is long gone with advent of nuke, missiles, drones etc, but by this time today military has become the strongest entity in Pakistan so that the Civil Govt and departments are even dependent on it.

In any case, the system benefits any one in department - be it a peon or mid career Govt officer or a top level Director. So why should they change the system ? Eat together.
Nowadays there is not much threat from India I agree.

If I had to say what threats are most significant, it is probably insurgencies within the country like BLA, TTP - which I guess will have increasingly more significant support from Afghanistan who now regularly says durrand line is fake.

But this system explained above is embarrassingly dysfunctional. It's like accepting that Pakistan will always be a third world country without even trying to change. Extreme corruption and incompetency is the norm.

If we could get a dictator that tries to reform things and has to stay for 10 - 20 years then it would be worth it.
 
Nowadays there is not much threat from India I agree.

If I had to say what threats are most significant, it is probably insurgencies within the country like BLA, TTP - which I guess will have increasingly more significant support from Afghanistan.

But this system explained above is embarrassingly dysfunctional. It's like accepting that Pakistan will always be a third world country without even trying to change. Extreme corruption and incompetency is the norm.

If we could get a dictator that tries to reform things and has to stay for 10 - 20 years then it would be worth it.
A simple example to compare why military works efficiently and the civil departments (govt or private) fail.

A civil officer was ordered to get posted out from a certain station. 6 years on, he never got posted out. The replacement sat next to him and then was posted back.

A military officer was handed out posting, he has to join the new post or go home forever.

That is why military got things done and is the most powerful structure of system today.
 
If we could get a dictator that tries to reform things and has to stay for 10 - 20 years then it would be worth it.
Nahi, it didnt work in the past and it won't in future.

Things start to get cozy after a few years and back to good old system of sifarish and bribery.
 
A simple example to compare why military works efficiently and the civil departments (govt or private) fail.

A civil officer was ordered to get posted out from a certain station. 6 years on, he never got posted out. The replacement sat next to him and then was posted back.

A military officer was handed out posting, he has to join the new post or go home forever.

That is why military got things done and is the most powerful structure of system today.
What if civil service members went through more strict type of training with stricter laws enforced by the military or something? 🤔

I don't know but there should be some kind of workable solution. It is very pessimistic to accept extreme corruption and extreme incompetency as the norm.

It's actually very embarrassing seeing everyone progress but you have a backwards low quality set up at home.

the way the current system is, there's complete lack of trust for investment, everything looks unprofessional from outside, and no practical work is being done with results.
 
What if civil service members went through more strict type of training with stricter laws enforced by the military or something? 🤔

I don't know but there should be some kind of workable solution. It is very pessimistic to accept extreme corruption and extreme incompetency as the norm.

It's actually very embarrassing seeing everyone progress but you have a backwards low quality set up at home.
That was tried.

You can see Police being trained by Military in YouTube videos. Civil officers getting training from military institutions, but a few months or 1 yea training is not enough.

The system of sifarish and bribery leads to corruption and that provides loop holes to make money.

I will give you another example. If military has to raise an armored brigade, the necessity is 90 MBTs minimum and 50 APCs. So military will need those and get those to fulfill the criteria of raising a formation. Lets say China is contacted and agrees to provide on loan terms. It will never be done like this that 45 MBTs are standard for a regiment while only 25 MBTs are procured and the regiment has to operate 25 MBTs only for its operations because no one knows where the money for 20 MBTs has gone. The 45 MBTs will show up and form the regiment. Then the Brigade will accept that regiment, the division will accept that regiment and even the Corps HQ will allow it to be attached to it.

In Civil department, for procuring 25 fire trucks, they can and will settle on 15 or 18 and no one will know where the funds for remaining trucks have gone and why they never showed up. The current director will blame the previous director and so on and so forth.

A squadron is of 12-15 tanks. A regiment is 45 tanks. Brigade of 90 tanks. Military accepts that standard.

Civil Department can accept 3 fire trucks for one district, maybe 4 for another and then 6 for another. There is no formation structure that can define a standard for them.
 
That was tried.

You can see Police being trained by Military in YouTube videos. Civil officers getting training from military institutions, but a few months or 1 yea training is not enough.

The system of sifarish and bribery leads to corruption and that provides loop holes to make money.

I will give you another example. If military has to raise an armored brigade, the necessity is 90 MBTs minimum and 50 APCs. So military will need those and get those to fulfill the criteria of raising a formation. Lets say China is contacted and agrees to provide on loan terms. It will never be done like this that 45 MBTs are standard for a regiment while only 25 MBTs are procured and the regiment has to operate 25 MBTs only for its operations because no one knows where the money for 20 MBTs has gone. The 45 MBTs will show up and form the regiment. Then the Brigade will accept that regiment, the division will accept that regiment and even the Corps HQ will allow it to be attached to it.

In Civil department, for procuring 25 fire trucks, they can and will settle on 15 or 18 and no one will know where the funds for remaining trucks have gone and why they never showed up. The current director will blame the previous director and so on and so forth.

A squadron is of 12-15 tanks. A regiment is 45 tanks. Brigade of 90 tanks. Military accepts that standard.

Civil Department can accept 3 fire trucks for one district, maybe 4 for another and then 6 for another. There is no formation structure that can define a standard for them.
May God have mercy on us from here is all I can say.

I have heard some criticism of military too, like their inability to adapt to more modern challenges and remaining stuck in old habits, very non receptive to evolving and learning.

Overall still better than civillian government institutions which are a complete dysfunctional shithshow.
 
I have heard some criticism of military too, like their inability to adapt to more modern challenges and remaining stuck in old habits, very non receptive to evolving and learning.
You have heard 100% correctly.
Overall still better than civillian government institutions which are a complete dysfunctional shithshow.
Andho mein kana raja. Military is not the best overall, but in comparison to civil its way ahead.
 
That was tried.

You can see Police being trained by Military in YouTube videos. Civil officers getting training from military institutions, but a few months or 1 yea training is not enough.

Why would you want a military man training a policemen ?
 

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