Pakistan's real problem is very poor institutions - not political

[PakCan]

Institutions are not an entity by itself- people run these institutions and people are shaped by the environment we live in.

Institutions need time to develop- overtime if these institutions are run on merit they will produce results.

Civilians were never allowed to run an institution without interference- those are the hard cold facts which if you deny you are delusional. KPK police was improving under PTI (overnight we wont reach perfection). Private enterprises in Pakistan are also producing result but again everything comes down to how the country is being run.

These elections are again are an example how the corrupt mafia is being kept in power by the Military, and these corrupt politicians will keep corrupt bureaucrat’s and corrupt judges in key positions. How does one expect institutions to do their job when generals refuse to keep their dirty boots out of politics?

There are plenty of examples of how corrupt military is. The rampant corruption in military run institutions- the kick backs general demand on spare parts required for military equipment. One things military might not have is corruption at lower ranks but give it time and it will get there as well.

 

[gangsta_rap]

a little less than 1/2 of pakistan never felt the need of having institutions or whatever it is that you are complaining about:

 

[Developereo]

If I was feeling silly, I would point out the English errors in the OP that berates Pakistanis for their bad English.

Ironically, the OP symbolizes the Pakistani failures it laments.

 

[Signalian]

Why would you want a military man training a policemen ?

Read whole context. The answer to you Q is there already

 

[kambhakt]

Read whole context. The answer to you Q is there already

Has there been any study if the policeman trained by the army is better than the policeman trained by the police.

 

[GatlingGun]

That didn't help in the long run. The military leaders later on found Ayub Khan's action an excuse to throw away democracy at will without realizing Ayub's thinking

Till the time Pakistanis will be high on coolaid of "good intentions", it's never gonna evolve. They have same feelings for all the goofups done by Imran with Pakistan's international relations and fuel-energy subsidies.

Your military elites needed to give some time for democracy to flourish. Not even 10 years from the independence and your military elites started thinking that oh no "it's not gonna work".

They created a blockade on a natural flowing river of democracy . Some people built mansions and huts in that land which was left behind by the drying river. Now you can not open the floodgates because it will hurt the people living in the dried river bed.

 

[AsaRad1]

If I was feeling silly, I would point out the English errors in the OP that berates Pakistanis for their bad English.

Ironically, the OP symbolizes the Pakistani failures it laments.

I wrote this while walking in a rush, I can spot many mistakes as well but it's a forum and I felt it got my point across well enough

 

[Signalian]

Till the time Pakistanis will be high on coolaid of "good intentions", it's never gonna evolve. They have same feelings for all the goofups done by Imran with Pakistan's international relations and fuel-energy subsidies.

Your military elites needed to give some time for democracy to flourish. Not even 10 years from the independence and your military elites started thinking that oh no "it's not gonna work".

They created a blockade on a natural flowing river of democracy . Some people built mansions and huts in that land which was left behind by the drying river. Now you can not open the floodgates because it will hurt the people living in the dried river bed.

I don’t believe that the bribery and sifarish culture is affiliated with politics of democracy or dictatorship as it has been there since beginning irrespective of who was PM or Chief.

 

[Signalian]

Has there been any study if the policeman trained by the army is better than the policeman trained by the police.

Find one and inform us.

Irrespective, the CSS officers training academy should be upgraded to set highest standards.

 

[Signalian]

I wrote this while walking in a rush, I can spot many mistakes as well but it's a forum and I felt it got my point across well enough

They are trying to score brownie points without any worthwhile contribution.

 

[AsaRad1]

Civilians were never allowed to run an institution without interference- those are the hard cold facts which if you deny you are delusional.

I agree with the first part that they need time to evolve and grow out of whatever negative cultural habits but this isn't true.

Many institutions even today are pretty free of non-civillian interference but plagued with the same chronic incompetency & corruption issues.

What improved during PTIs era was a more efficient selection process, more skilled people were chosen in important positions for projects

 

[Developereo]

I wrote this while walking in a rush, I can spot many mistakes as well but it's a forum and I felt it got my point across well enough

Anyway, I agree with your point and the blame lies squarely with the military which decided, early in Pakistan's life, to play kingmaker. What they did to Jinnah, his family, and Liaqat Ali Khan is part of our sordid history. Ayub Khan laid the foundation of the slave-master relationship in our foreign policy.

Coming to the point at hand, the culture of laziness, ineptitude, and outright thievery percolates from the top down.

When the elite businessman sees that the top politicians owe their fortunes to corruption and bribery, within a justice system for sale, praised by an obsequious media for sale, he does the same.

When these same mafia politicians get reinstated by the military kingmakers, the message resonates throughout society that corruption pays, thievery pays, meritocracy is for fools, and everyone is for sale.

The message from the establishment is clear: live for the day, collect the loot, stash it away in foreign lands for post-retirement, and invest a little in bribery to cover your back.

When the middle level businessman sees the politicians and military elite getting richer, most of them paying no taxes and thumbing their nose at the justice-for-sale system, he follows suit.

This percolates down to the lowest levels. Why should the entry level clerk or the sidewalk seller earn an honest living when their bosses and customers are thieves themselves?

It's a culture that praises and rewards thievery, laziness, and nepotism.

They are trying to score brownie points without any worthwhile contribution.

It's called attention to detail, taking pride in your work.
Most people get it, some never will.

 

[Signalian]

I agree with the first part that they need time to evolve and grow out of whatever negative cultural habits but this isn't true.

Many institutions even today are pretty free of non-civillian interference but plagued with the same chronic incompetency & corruption issues.

What improved during PTIs era was a more efficient selection process, more skilled people were chosen in important positions for projects

Public cannot take the blame on itself for its own incompetence. They need to point fingers towards somebody else and that another core issue.

 

[Signalian]

Anyway, I agree with your point and the blame lies squarely with the military

Disagree.

Bribery and sifarish culture existed before military takeovers too. The public didn’t convert into angels on 14th august 1947. The whole mindset and system came with the people, the public to Pakistan. Military didn’t set SOPs for civil departments even back then.

 

[Signalian]

Institutions are not an entity by itself- people run these institutions and people are shaped by the environment we live in.

Institutions need time to develop- overtime if these institutions are run on merit they will produce results.

Civilians were never allowed to run an institution without interference- those are the hard cold facts which if you deny you are delusional. KPK police was improving under PTI (overnight we wont reach perfection). Private enterprises in Pakistan are also producing result but again everything comes down to how the country is being run.

These elections are again are an example how the corrupt mafia is being kept in power by the Military, and these corrupt politicians will keep corrupt bureaucrat’s and corrupt judges in key positions. How does one expect institutions to do their job when generals refuse to keep their dirty boots out of politics?

There are plenty of examples of how corrupt military is. The rampant corruption in military run institutions- the kick backs general demand on spare parts required for military equipment. One things military might not have is corruption at lower ranks but give it time and it will get there as well.

Blaming military gives a free ticket to everyone but it will never gain anything because it’s not the complete truth. It’s an excuse. This vicious circle is even more disastrous.