Pakistan's real problem is very poor institutions - not political

[Signalian]

The result is not the same. Private schools in Pakistan do reasonably well. I assume military academies do likewise. But the masses go to public schools which are a disaster.

A country cannot thrive if its masses receive no education. Once again, this is not an academic exercise: we can see the difference where India and Bangladesh are compared to Pakistan because those cultures feel that quality education is the birthright of every child, especially the poor child.

The result is the same since bribery and sifarish still thrives, along with the factors that OP mentioned. The difference in education should have shown in some significant way or another to affect the highlighted issues but hasn't.

Secondly, the public learns from politicians, not teachers as public has interest in politics, not education.

 

[PakCan]

Blaming military gives a free ticket to everyone but it will never gain anything because it’s not the complete truth. It’s an excuse. This vicious circle is even more disastrous.

Excuse? Really? I run a company and I keep forgiving my employees who steal regularly and show up to work late. I don’t promote on merit - what do you think will be the outcome?

I blame military because they have controlled Pakistan directly or in directly for over 70 years. What’s going on right now? You think the judges are doing their job? Who is forcing them? Who is blackmailing them? Bureaucracy that is currently supporting PML N , why do you think they are ignoring the law so openly?

These elections that took place - who violated people’s right . Soldiers were used directly to take away rights of Pakistanis .

I don’t hate military but I hate when people turn a blind eye to the reality of the world. Pakistan needs a powerful military but not corrupt generals who want to interfere in democratic process.

I agree with the first part that they need time to evolve and grow out of whatever negative cultural habits but this isn't true.

Many institutions even today are pretty free of non-civillian interference but plagued with the same chronic incompetency & corruption issues.

What improved during PTIs era was a more efficient selection process, more skilled people were chosen in important positions for projects

And what happened when PTI government was overthrown? When temporary government was formed in KP - it destroyed all the good that was done by PTI because the corrupt came on top and started making changes. When we have a democratic process - politicians will try to improve things because they will fear the public during elections. If you know corrupt generals will make you win - why would you bother doing anything.

The viscous cycle has to be broken and people want to break it. It’s the generals who are standing in the way.

 

[Developereo]

Are we sure it is education ? Pakistan has 58% compared to 76% for India and 74% for Bangladesh

Public education system in Pakistan is a complete disaster, especially in rural areas where so-called schools don't even exist physically but 'teachers' and 'administrators' collect salaries. Unfortunately, these poor people are so beaten down by the system of feudals, local strongmen, and their benefactors up the power ladder, that they can do nothing about it. They see their children suffer from malnutrition, stuck in the lowest socioeconomic rung for generations, and trapped in the system. The urban or middle class can run away to foreign lands but these poorest people are stuck for generations.

 

[Signalian]

I blame military because they have controlled Pakistan directly or in directly for over 70 years.

Not at the start and not always. So the blame on military is futile as military didnt make SOPs for Govt Depts or private businesses.

 

[Signalian]

My uncle had problem with NADRA and with some business he also said pak is like stuck in old ages, no sane person would waste time there.

Whole country is like bunch of uncles at a tea gathering doing whatever lazy stuff but they call it idara

ZERO PROFESSIONALISM, ZERO STANDARDS. They flex non achievements. He say India will **** them up in few decades.

4 pages, only blame games, no solution yet.

 

[GatlingGun]

Pakistan, India and Bangladesh all share the same culture and mindset but the other two have fared much better. Part of the difference is that Indian and Bengali culture value education much more than Pakistani culture (although there are pockets in Pakistan who value education also).

There is nothing wrong with the military per se but, when they decided to play kingmaker, they crossed the threshold into accountability. If the military minded it's own business, if the COAS and ISPR didn't feel it was their place to issue foreign policy statements to the media, then I would let them off the hook. But Pakistani military has been in the thick of it since long back.

Not true. All of us started from nearly same point.
Especially the literacy gap between India and west Pakistan wasn't much .

Now start blaming education. Which is in one way true but there were different modes of education like Govt schools in city and villages, private schools, military boarding schools and home schooling. Different syllabus and curriculum, different teaching methods and assessment methods etc.

So why is the result all the same. It’s not the military even though you want to blame it and think that’s the issue, no it’s not. Pakistan was made in 1947 while martial law came much later. Military didn’t intervene to start with, it was the civil govt and bureaucracy who took reign before Ayub.

Some people here don't wanna admit about the elephant in the room because they belong to the most corrupt idara of the Pakistan, which separates the odd one out of three parts of Indian subcontinent.

People with biased POV blame everything to the "culture".

 

[Signalian]

Not true. All of us started from nearly same point.


Especially the gap between India and west Pakistan wasn't much .




But some people here don't wanna admit about the elephant in the room because they belong to the most corrupt idara of the Pakistan, which separates the odd one out of three parts of Indian subcontinent.

People with biased POV blame everything to the "culture".

View attachment 19543View attachment 19542

Yes, its established that education is one of the issues for Pakistan. India isnt the concern here.

 

[Signalian]

Excuse? Really? I run a company and I keep forgiving my employees who steal regularly and show up to work late. I don’t promote on merit - what do you think will be the outcome?

The military isnt responsible for the issues mentioned by OP

 

[Developereo]

Not true. All of us started from nearly same point.
Especially the literacy gap between India and west Pakistan wasn't much .

I don't think you understood my point. I agree we started the same but the difference now is huge. Even more damning is the example of Bangladesh which only truly became free in 1971 but is on track to surpass Pakistan in many areas.

 

[kambhakt]

Public education system in Pakistan is a complete disaste.

Maybe you should put a retired General in charge. The general consensus is that whenever some system is bad, hand it over to the army and they will improve it with their better education and discipline.

I have not been able to find any system that has improved after being taken over by the army.

 

[Developereo]

4 pages, only blame games, no solution yet.

The solution has been crystal clear from the get go: strong accountability of government institutions.

The problem, as usual, is who will bell the cat?

The only power capable of doing so, the Pakistan military, is squarely on the side of the mafias.

Imran Khan was the last hope for many of us but the military did what they did. There is nothing on the horizon for the next several decades except the same mafia families playing musical chairs with their kids and grandkids, looting Pakistan to the ground. The comparison is no longer with India or Bangladesh, but with Afghanistan.

Almost everybody I know is selling their assets in Pakistan and moving abroad.

 

[Signalian]

The solution has been crystal clear from the get go: strong accountability of government institutions.

Prcctical solution ?

 

[Signalian]

I don't think you understood my point. I agree we started the same but the difference now is huge. Even more damning is the example of Bangladesh which only truly became free in 1971 but is on track to surpass Pakistan in many areas.

I agree

 

[Signalian]

Imran Khan was the last hope for many of us but the military did what they did.

Leave politics out. IK knew bajwa is bringing him in power and as long as IK praised Bajwa and Army, he remained in power. IK is party to Bajwa plan so lets not go there.

 

[Signalian]

The problem, as usual, is who will bell the cat?

Will the public blame itself and mend its ways so the people in power start to see a change they cant handle ? So far public is aligned with corruption, sifarish, bribery- for personal gains.