Pakistan's real problem is very poor institutions - not political

[Signalian]

He said something to the effect - I am the chief martial law administrator and I decide.

In the context of Pakistan I am fine with that if he tells me how is he going to be accountable if he makes a mistake

Musharraf did the same unfortunately. Made a decision and the nation is still paying the price.

One thing about military dictators, the hammer coming down like giving orders isnt the viable way-ever. They forget diplomacy and negotiations.

 

[Signalian]

A lot of things do not have a right or wrong answer

No one wants to change. Thats the sore point and thats my reply - the individual from within the public changes first.

Basically public doesnt want to change, so the leader is expected to be a saint who can conjure up tricks to change them also.

 

[Signalian]

What!!!1 Just 5/100. Man, your marking.

Such a negative approach :-(

I picked up the Diamond from gold and silver.

 

[nahtanbob]

Musharraf did the same unfortunately. Made a decision and the nation is still paying the price.

One thing about military dictators, the hammer coming down like giving orders isnt the viable way-ever. They forget diplomacy and negotiations.

Is this how they can make military decisions too ?

I studied the German decision making during WW 2. Granted there was a lot of interference from Hitler and some of his top sycophants. A lot of the war planning was driven by well educated & well trained military staff officers.

 

[Signalian]

Is this how they can make military decisions too ?

I studied the German decision making during WW 2. Granted there was a lot of interference from Hitler and some of his top sycophants. A lot of the war planning was driven by well educated & well trained military staff officers.

Yes.

Rommel from Germans side and Patton from USA side often ignored orders through wily ways so they can achieve their military objectives through their own devised plans.

 

[nahtanbob]

No one wants to change. Thats the sore point and thats my reply - the individual from within the public changes first.

Basically public doesnt want to change, so the leader is expected to be a saint who can conjure up tricks to change them also.

You are putting the onus on people being solely upright/corrupt. You ignore the fact there are shades of gray. Even good people can make bad decisions. A lot of critical decisions being made are not driven by that calculus.

Deciding what the military budget of Pakistan is not a right/wrong decision. Maybe someone proposes a zero military budget it is a wrong decision. Having a $5 billion or $10 billion military budget does not fall in right/wrong category.

 

[nahtanbob]

Yes.

Rommel from Germans side and Patton from USA side often ignored orders through wily ways so they can achieve their military objectives through their own devised plans.

you will lose wars if you are making military decisions because it came from the guy at the top like General Zia.

you are cherry picking. Most German generals took their orders from the high command. But there was a lot of 2-way communications

 

[Goenitz]

Somehow, personally, I have seen that Germans are not like that, in science, technology and engineering sector at least. Many other nationalities, working with Germans complained that they are too focused and lose the light humor element also.

Japs and Koreans are another example along with Chinese. All different cultures, yet dedicated hard working individuals.

@Joe Shearer
It is values. Whatever values you put in society, it become a culture and an instinct. Ever wonder why 6-sigma theory or Total Quality Control concepts conceived by Japs, or why so durable automobiles are made in Korea and Japan?

It is like Indians breath in democracy whereas we have to demonstrate what democracy is as it is an alien here.
Look at japanese street vendors.

How much care they put in hygiene and presentation. Now tell me, if such people become engineers/scientists etc, they will take the same qualities in manufacturing, management and so on. That is how a nation makes the best quality cars, swords, electronics, etc.

How you do anything is how you do everything

Besides democracy, Indian and Pakistani values are the same. We are lazy, crave sarkari naukri, love jugaard , and bad in hygiene and quality. See Indian vaccine manufacturers made a drug but couldn't handle impurity properly. The result; it killed many children. Can people like us make quality aircraft and semi-conductors, alone ourselves? or maintain something! Why IAF have high attrition rates or we still import quality stuff even agrarian products.

"The Uzbek Health Ministry said this week that 18 out of 21 children known to have taken Dok-1 Max syrup made by India's Marion Biotech had died"

All I am saying is it is the values of a society that drive the nation's output, work ethics, etc. Values are developed with clear direction, and respecting that and guarding it over centuries.

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

Maybe you missed the memo. The British left Pakistan in 1947. It is time you grew up and used some of your $40 billion budget to build more universities, Polytechnics, Colleges, Vocational Colleges in Pakistan.

You don't have to lecture us, we know what to do. Thank you very much.

 

[GatlingGun]

You don't have to lecture us, we know what to do. Thank you very much.

That's the issue..
"everyone knows, but no-one is willing to do"

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer
It is values. Whatever values you put in society, it become a culture and an instinct. Ever wonder why 6-sigma theory or Total Quality Control concepts conceived by Japs, or why so durable automobiles are made in Korea and Japan?

It is like Indians breath in democracy whereas we have to demonstrate what democracy is as it is an alien here.
Look at japanese street vendors.

How much care they put in hygiene and presentation. Now tell me, if such people become engineers/scientists etc, they will take the same qualities in manufacturing, management and so on. That is how a nation makes the best quality cars, swords, electronics, etc.

How you do anything is how you do everything

Besides democracy, Indian and Pakistani values are the same. We are lazy, crave sarkari naukri, love jugaard , and bad in hygiene and quality. See Indian vaccine manufacturers made a drug but couldn't handle impurity properly. The result; it killed many children. Can people like us make quality aircraft and semi-conductors, alone ourselves? or maintain something! Why IAF have high attrition rates or we still import quality stuff even agrarian products.

"The Uzbek Health Ministry said this week that 18 out of 21 children known to have taken Dok-1 Max syrup made by India's Marion Biotech had died"

All I am saying is it is the values of a society that drive the nation's output, work ethics, etc. Values are developed with clear direction, and respecting that and guarding it over centuries.

It is also pricing and GDP @ PPP. If anybody sold Wagyu sheekh kabab at $22 each, he'd take more care than the guy selling Kathi Rolls @ Rs 50 each.

 

[Joe Shearer]

That's the issue..
"everyone knows, but no-one is willing to do"

This is why it becomes uncomfortable to find Indians commenting on Pakistan.
Don't.

 

[kambhakt]

You don't have to lecture us, we know what to do. Thank you very much.

If you did, this thread would not exist.

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

If you did, this thread would not exist.

Other Pakistanis can tell us where we are going wrong.

You focus on India.

 

[nahtanbob]

You don't have to lecture us, we know what to do. Thank you very much.

From the ideas you are posting on this forum you might just need that. In real life I think even friends of Pakistan are tired of you guys which is why the begging bowl is getting harder