Rafale M Deal: India and France to Fast-Track Negotiations After Elections

[Guru Dutt]

the majority of fleet you will be facing will be armed with AMRAAMS, PL-10, PL-12 and PL-15.
Many with AESA.

MIG-29K range, avionics and missiles simply will not compete, that is why IN is desperte for Rafales

there are only 18 fighter with less than 300 AIM120C5 with PAF left as of now and only 26 J10C and none of them is coming with PL-15

as for Indian anavy and Indian AIR fORCE ASRAAM and I DERBY ER/ASTRA MK1 or MICA twins combo is common on every Mig29 or Mig29K or Mirage 2000 or Jaguar or even Su30MKi or even LCA MK1A till ASTRA MK II starts trickling in and already starting from Mig29K which has Zhuk AE to Jaguars which have EL2052 already have AESA radar while all Mig29 & Mrages and Su30 MKIs of IAF are in process to be upgraded by indian made GaN verssion of UTTAM AESA radar while first 40 LCA MK1A are coming with latest GaN verssion of EL2052 AESA radar so dont worry unlike your nation we dont have to beg IMF & world bank for LOANs or china for SOFT LOANS to upgrade we are already doing it with our own money as we speak

as for Sub hunting we are already making more than couple of avro based and helicopter based sub hunters with desi ASEA equipped assets amonth P8I and other legacy assets of Indian navy and few new HALE & MALE drone based assets for the same

 

[Yasser76]

JF-17 production has stopped since 2022. They haven't had new jets produced; 170 is the number going on since 2020. The last news of the JF-17, apart from crashes and taking part in airshows, etc., was in 2023 for its induction (Block 3). Pakistan ordered the J-10C and is waiting for the FC-31. Only 12 Block-3s have been made so far. Azerbaijan has not ordered those 24 jets. The initial order was of 30 by PAF. Not even a single Block 2A or Block 2B has been made after 2022. I doubt they can make 24 jets per year. Pakistan hailed the JF-17 as a permanent solution but ordered the J-10. The last JF-17 Block 2A delivered was in 2019, and Block 2B in 2020. 12 JF-17 Block 3s were produced from 2022 to early 2023, indicating a production gap. JF-17 Block 1 has limited capabilities in all domains; Block 2B is mostly a trainer, so 100 proper fighter aircraft are in service. Pakistan has 20 J-10Cs and 75 F-16s; all Mirages are from the 1960s and 1970s. Pakistan has not more than 200 proper fighter jets in service. Out of 75 F-16s, only 57 are BVR capable, while JF-17s are not truly multirole aircraft. Only 30-40 Mirage 3 and 5s can carry standoff munitions but will require heavy escort like they did in 2019 with two squadrons worth of escort for a single target that they missed. The PAF is still a sitting duck. EW aircraft in Pakistan are used as VIP transport for the Pakistani air chief. Block 2 and older F-16s would be at the mercy of jammers.

All of this equally applicable to IAF.

1) Yes, JF-17 is truely multi-role, has BVR and Indian Army Brigadiers can testify to it's PGM capability
2) PAF has 3 Falcon 20 EW aircraft that blinded IAF in 2019. PAF ACM rides in Challenger plane, if you stop posting falsehoods you will get more respect on this site
3) 36 new Block IIIs were delivered in 2023, why again do you lie simply because the rest of yiru argument is falling on its ass?

 

[Yasser76]

there are only 18 fighter with less than 300 AIM120C5 with PAF left as of now and only 26 J10C and none of them is coming with PL-15

as for Indian anavy and Indian AIR fORCE ASRAAM and I DERBY ER/ASTRA MK1 or MICA twins combo is common on every Mig29 or Mig29K or Mirage 2000 or Jaguar or even Su30MKi or even LCA MK1A till ASTRA MK II starts trickling in and already starting from Mig29K which has Zhuk AE to Jaguars which have EL2052 already have AESA radar while all Mig29 & Mrages and Su30 MKIs of IAF are in process to be upgraded by indian made GaN verssion of UTTAM AESA radar while first 40 LCA MK1A are coming with latest GaN verssion of EL2052 AESA radar so dont worry unlike your nation we dont have to beg IMF & world bank for LOANs or china for SOFT LOANS to upgrade we are already doing it with our own money as we speak

as for Sub hunting we are already making more than couple of avro based and helicopter based sub hunters with desi ASEA equipped assets amonth P8I and other legacy assets of Indian navy and few new HALE & MALE drone based assets for the same

You know the exact amount of AMRAAMs PAF holds? Wow, you must be in ISI as literally no one else knows this info. 46 A/ MLUS and 18 block 52s are AMRAAM capable, the fact you do not even know these basics shows it is pointless arguing with someone who has no grasp of facts.

As LCA slowly trickles in, it will now be matched with Block III Thunders, J-10s and soon J-31s. What is your actual point about the MIG-29K?

Do you even have a pint or when losing an argument about Nava aviation then talk about Soft Loans and IMF. Is that the best you got?

 

[harpy1]

It's not just our superior numbers and size of warships like our destroyers it's the new assets we are adding as force multiplets

The predator and sea guardian drones
The mh60 Romeo helicopters
The Poseidon anti sub planes

This is best USA has to offer

They are really threat

Add 26 Rafale with the range long range weapons like scalp and meteore as well as the electronic spectra warfare suite to simply say you can't do nothing against our

Current agosta and cruise missiles is a joke

It's tens of billions of dollars in investment that India is buying best of the best

 

[Yasser76]

It's not just our superior numbers and size of warships like our destroyers it's the new assets we are adding as force multiplets

The predator and sea guardian drones
The mh60 Romeo helicopters
The Poseidon anti sub planes

This is best USA has to offer

They are really threat

Add 26 Rafale with the range long range weapons like scalp and meteore as well as the electronic spectra warfare suite to simply say you can't do nothing against our

Current agosta and cruise missiles is a joke

It's tens of billions of dollars in investment that India is buying best of the best

Yes, Harpoon, Exocet, Barbur 3, C-602 and YJ-12 are "jokes".....

 

[Guru Dutt]

You know the exact amount of AMRAAMs PAF holds? Wow, you must be in ISI as literally no one else knows this info. 46 A/ MLUS and 18 block 52s are AMRAAM capable, the fact you do not even know these basics shows it is pointless arguing with someone who has no grasp of facts.

As LCA slowly trickles in, it will now be matched with Block III Thunders, J-10s and soon J-31s. What is your actual point about the MIG-29K?

Do you even have a pint or when losing an argument about Nava aviation then talk about Soft Loans and IMF. Is that the best you got?

well i do have sorces

PAF had bought 500 AIM 120 C5s way back in 2004 and all of them left are past there shelf life and are now working after a MLU that too hapenned almost 5 years back since then USA has not given any air to air missile to PAF as there is a sanction aganist PAF over some USA's issues

my point about Mig29K is last Mig29K came in 2010 so they are fairly new and with latest russian technology and with ZHUK AE AESA radar and latest stand off weapons and latest ASRAAM and ASTRA MK1 air to air wepaons and with comfortable 600 to 650 Km combat radius (850 is original radius with full fuel) and 6000 Kg external weapons load meaning 4BVRs and two WVRs and one IRST sensor and a Laser designation pod and couple of laser guided or smart weapons or two BVRs/two WVRs and four smart weapons /missiles & a LPD a Mig29 is more than enough to creat hell on a port like karachi single handedlly ... think if three or four Mig29ks come in five diffrent location simontainously do PAF or PN has those kinds of assets to engage and defete them when there will already be attacks by indian land based assets across the border ????

Indian Navy also has KILO class and Scorpene class subs and they are all equipped with CLUB and Harpooon BLK III class cruise missiles and sea to surface missiles here i am not even talking about sea based 800Km bhramose cruise missiles and those countless land based kamakazi drones

so bhai its not all that easy just cause china is giving you 11 AIP equipped subs

 

[Yasser76]

well i do have sorces

PAF had bought 500 AIM 120 C5s way back in 2004 and all of them left are past there shelf life and are now working after a MLU that too hapenned almost 5 years back since then USA has not given any air to air missile to PAF as there is a sanction aganist PAF over some USA's issues

my point about Mig29K is last Mig29K came in 2010 so they are fairly new and with latest russian technology and with ZHUK AE AESA radar and latest stand off weapons and latest ASRAAM and ASTRA MK1 air to air wepaons and with comfortable 600 to 650 Km combat radius (850 is original radius with full fuel) and 6000 Kg external weapons load meaning 4BVRs and two WVRs and one IRST sensor and a Laser designation pod and couple of laser guided or smart weapons or two BVRs/two WVRs and four smart weapons /missiles & a LPD a Mig29 is more than enough to creat hell on a port like karachi single handedlly ... think if three or four Mig29ks come in five diffrent location simontainously do PAF or PN has those kinds of assets to engage and defete them when there will already be attacks by indian land based assets across the border ????

Indian Navy also has KILO class and Scorpene class subs and they are all equipped with CLUB and Harpooon BLK III class cruise missiles and sea to surface missiles here i am not even talking about sea based 800Km bhramose cruise missiles and those countless land based kamakazi drones

so bhai its not all that easy just cause china is giving you 11 AIP equipped subs

So you admit to making up your own facts on PAF AMRAAMS and are not even sure how many F-16s can fire them?

The ZHUK - M Radar is not AESA

Again, if you want to go ahead and lie about facts, it is pointless debating you. I can go ahead and so PAF has 200 F-22 Raptors. See how easy that is?

No pint me wasting my time now, as I seem to educate you for free and in return get BS.

Bye

 

[Guru Dutt]

So you admit to making up your own facts on PAF AMRAAMS and are not even sure how many F-16s can fire them?

The ZHUK - M Radar is not AESA

Again, if you want to go ahead and lie about facts, it is pointless debating you. I can go ahead and so PAF has 200 F-22 Raptors. See how easy that is?

No pint me wasting my time now, as I seem to educate you for free and in return get BS.

Bye

no only 18 BLK 52 have the clearence to fire those AIM120C5s but if PAF cohooses to fire them from its turkish upgraded BLK40/42s then so be it ... but as per my knowlegde it never hapenned ... but who knows

first batch came with KHUK ME but later on it was upgraded to ZHUK AE as there were some difficulties in ME verssion though it was a costly option but IN had no choice as ME verssion kept on developing faults hence all were changed in a MLU avarded somehwere in 2018-19

as for real stregnth i gave you a rough estimate and your now panicking well looks like you cannot digest the reality but thats the way it is .. deal with it

 

[Yasser76]

no only 18 BLK 52 have the clearence to fire those AIM120C5s but if PAF cohooses to fire them from its turkish upgraded BLK40/42s then so be it ... but as per my knowlegde it never hapenned ... but who knows

first batch came with KHUK ME but later on it was upgraded to ZHUK AE as there were some difficulties in ME verssion though it was a costly option but IN had no choice as ME verssion kept on developing faults hence all were changed in a MLU avarded somehwere in 2018-19

as for real stregnth i gave you a rough estimate and your now panicking well looks like you cannot digest the reality but thats the way it is .. deal with it

It was a Block A/B MLU that used an AMRAAM to shootdown an Indian MIG-21, there are literally HUNDREDS of pictures of MLU with AMRAAMs on this forum

Seriously, are you this ignorant? You cannot be right?

 

[Pingle]

Well aparently during Balakot IN had difficulty finding just one A90B.

11 AIP subs roaming around is no joke, even the IN does not have enough assets.

Our submarine numbers will grow with 3 additional scorpeans, homemade SSBNs and latest upcoming western submarines..... S-80 or German U boats whoever comes will totally outclass Hangor class submarines in technology....

 

[Guru Dutt]

It was a Block A/B MLU that used an AMRAAM to shootdown an Indian MIG-21, there are literally HUNDREDS of pictures of MLU with AMRAAMs on this forum

Seriously, are you this ignorant? You cannot be right?

i am more than happy if you think that way cheers mate .. lagge raho

 

[Pingle]

well i do have sorces

PAF had bought 500 AIM 120 C5s way back in 2004 and all of them left are past there shelf life and are now working after a MLU that too hapenned almost 5 years back since then USA has not given any air to air missile to PAF as there is a sanction aganist PAF over some USA's issues

my point about Mig29K is last Mig29K came in 2010 so they are fairly new and with latest russian technology and with ZHUK AE AESA radar and latest stand off weapons and latest ASRAAM and ASTRA MK1 air to air wepaons and with comfortable 600 to 650 Km combat radius (850 is original radius with full fuel) and 6000 Kg external weapons load meaning 4BVRs and two WVRs and one IRST sensor and a Laser designation pod and couple of laser guided or smart weapons or two BVRs/two WVRs and four smart weapons /missiles & a LPD a Mig29 is more than enough to creat hell on a port like karachi single handedlly ... think if three or four Mig29ks come in five diffrent location simontainously do PAF or PN has those kinds of assets to engage and defete them when there will already be attacks by indian land based assets across the border ????

Indian Navy also has KILO class and Scorpene class subs and they are all equipped with CLUB and Harpooon BLK III class cruise missiles and sea to surface missiles here i am not even talking about sea based 800Km bhramose cruise missiles and those countless land based kamakazi drones

so bhai its not all that easy just cause china is giving you 11 AIP equipped subs

Do not forget our latest Rampage Missiles from Isreal which are mounted on MIG-29 Ks....
For submarines
8 Kilos
6 Scorpeans+3 will be added total 9 Scorpeans
6 S-80 or U-212
5 homemade SSBNs

So after 2030 we will be 23 SSK fleet with 5 SSBNs. this off course I am assuming if Kilos stay in service.

Rampage the beast...

 

[Guru Dutt]

Do not forget our latest Rampage Missiles from Isreal which are mounted on MIG-29 Ks....
For submarines
8 Kilos
6 Scorpeans+3 will be added total 9 Scorpeans
6 S-80 or U-212
5 homemade SSBNs

So after 2030 we will be 23 SSK fleet with 5 SSBNs. this off course I am assuming if Kilos stay in service.

Rampage the beast...

View attachment 49311

janne de bhai .. abb bachhe ki jaann legga kya

 

[DDG-80]

6 S-80 or U-212

U-214 with non-magnetic steel hull

 

[DDG-80]

So after 2030 we will be 23 SSK fleet. this off course I am assuming if Kilos stay in service

Commencing post-2030, the Indian Navy will commence the induction of 12 conventional diesel-electric submarines from Project 76 and SSNs under Project 75 Alpha.