Rafale M Deal: India and France to Fast-Track Negotiations After Elections

[Guru Dutt]

Commencing post-2030, the Indian Navy will commence the induction of 12 conventional diesel-electric submarines from Project 76 and SSNs under Project 75 Alpha.

abhi 2024 me to whan budget bann nahi paa raha tum logg lagge ho 2030 ki batte karnne ....

 

[Pingle]

U-214 with non-magnetic steel hull

Which one is better in 212 and 214?

 

[Guru Dutt]

Which one is better in 212 and 214?

i guess non magnatic hul is not for export or for export to only NATO nations rest there is hardly any diffrence other than the hull ... maybe

 

[DDG-80]

Which one is better in 212 and 214?

U-214 offers slightly improved range and endurance over U-212 due to its larger size and newer technology.

 

[Guru Dutt]

U-214 offers slightly improved range and endurance over U-212 due to its larger size and newer technology.

but the price diffrence is huge and i do not think its wiser to go with germans ... they will always ditch india when we are in need better fo with next gen scorpenes with nexy gen AIP tech and all that

 

[DDG-80]

but the price diffrence is huge and i do not think its wiser to go with germans ...

The Type 214 is actually a more cost-effective option. It's widely adopted, which means the production processes are standardized and the components have been field-tested and refined over time. Plus, with so many Type 214 submarines in service around the world, there's a well-established supply chain and maintenance infrastructure. This helps keep the overall lifecycle costs down and makes it easier to get spare parts and technical support.

 

[DDG-80]

we are in need better fo with next gen scorpenes with nexy gen AIP tech and all that

The 10 Best Diesel Electric Submarines In 2023

defencepk.com

 

[Archie]

Rafale M purchase is meant to boost our defence and PLAN not PN

As far as Pakistan is concerned , we don't really need a CBG

our present fleet of Destroyers Frigates and Scorpenes Subs are enough

Well aparently during Balakot IN had difficulty finding just one A90B.

11 AIP subs roaming around is no joke, even the IN does not have enough assets.

You have 3 Agosta90B subs currently in service
These were inducted between 1997-2007
You have 2 Agosta70 subs which were inducted in 1980-82 and are well past their service life and don't have AIP.

India is looking to retire 3 Kilo class Subs which were inducted between 1987-89
So I don't see agosta70 will remain active for more than 2-3 yrs

Their is a reason why India didn't opt for AIP for initial batch of Scorpenes, it's because French AIP was too noisy at that time and technology was not mature

The second batch of Scorpenes which we are buying will come with Fuel cell based AIP which Developed by DRDO in collaboration with French NAVAL Group.
This AIP will also be fitted on Our first 6 Scorpenes class Subs when they go in for their first major MLU maintenance starting 2026.

India is going to keep 4 Kilo class subs and 3 U209 till 2035, after which they will be replaced by U214/S80 subs which should begin to enter service around 2033
These 7 boats are undergoing Major MLU costing upwards of 100 million USD Each
Which will give them 10 more years of service life
U209 are also getting the Submarine launched Harpoon Block IV Missiles as part of MLU
This missile was on offer to India even during the first MLU of u209 subs in 2009-10 . However UPA MOD decided against it

India currently has 16 SSKs and 2 Arihant class SSBN
That's 3 times the subs operated by PN

By 2035 we hope to field 15 AIP equipped SSKs and 4 SSBNs with another 6 SSNs on the way

 

[Pingle]

but the price diffrence is huge and i do not think its wiser to go with germans ... they will always ditch india when we are in need better fo with next gen scorpenes with nexy gen AIP tech and all that

I feel the same. Germany is not reliable supplier and have a habit of poking its nose into internal matters of other countries.... they may backstab us in the time of need.... If not scorpeans then why not go for Shortfin Barracudas from France? Way too advance than scorpeans and U-214....

 

[Yasser76]

Rafale M purchase is meant to boost our defence and PLAN not PN

As far as Pakistan is concerned , we don't really need a CBG

our present fleet of Destroyers Frigates and Scorpenes Subs are enough

You have 3 Agosta90B subs currently in service
These were inducted between 1997-2007
You have 2 Agosta70 subs which were inducted in 1980-82 and are well past their service life and don't have AIP.

India is looking to retire 3 Kilo class Subs which were inducted between 1987-89
So I don't see agosta70 will remain active for more than 2-3 yrs

Their is a reason why India didn't opt for AIP for initial batch of Scorpenes, it's because French AIP was too noisy at that time and technology was not mature

The second batch of Scorpenes which we are buying will come with Fuel cell based AIP which Developed by DRDO in collaboration with French NAVAL Group.
This AIP will also be fitted on Our first 6 Scorpenes class Subs when they go in for their first major MLU maintenance starting 2026.

India is going to keep 4 Kilo class subs and 3 U209 till 2035, after which they will be replaced by U214/S80 subs which should begin to enter service around 2033
These 7 boats are undergoing Major MLU costing upwards of 100 million USD Each
Which will give them 10 more years of service life
U209 are also getting the Submarine launched Harpoon Block IV Missiles as part of MLU
This missile was on offer to India even during the first MLU of u209 subs in 2009-10 . However UPA MOD decided against it

India currently has 16 SSKs and 2 Arihant class SSBN
That's 3 times the subs operated by PN

By 2035 we hope to field 15 AIP equipped SSKs and 4 SSBNs with another 6 SSNs on the way

That is a lot of words to say very little.

3 Agosta 90B with AIP just modernised by Turkey

8 Hangor being made, 1 launched already. AIP

IN

Kilos are ancient, to the point of not being considered modern anymore. no AIP

U209s are now around 40 years old and have not been modernnised. no AIP

6 scorpenes - modern, no AIP

Effectively India has 6 modern SSKs, (no AIP), Pakistan has 3. in 2 years Pakistan will have 11. India will still have 6.

No further SSKs actually ordered. No one knows when they will be but you seem to be relying on "hope".....

 

[Guru Dutt]

That is a lot of words to say very little.

3 Agosta 90B with AIP just modernised by Turkey

8 Hangor being made, 1 launched already. AIP

IN

Kilos are ancient, to the point of not being considered modern anymore. no AIP

U209s are now around 40 years old and have not been modernnised. no AIP

6 scorpenes - modern, no AIP

Effectively India has 6 modern SSKs, (no AIP), Pakistan has 3. in 2 years Pakistan will have 11. India will still have 6.

No further SSKs actually ordered. No one knows when they will be but you seem to be relying on "hope".....

AIP is not something that makes a sub invisble but gives /makes power to recharge batteries without use of diesel engine for prolonged under water stay .... but here india and pakistan are next door so quiter working is more important than AIP alone and here even so called ancient KILO Class is a valuable asset as after its latest refit it is more potent than most internet fanbois can ever imagine while scorpenes even without AIP are on next level

india is using all its technology to make nuclear powerred subs and desiging new inhouse made diesel electric subs and DRDO has al;ready fully tested its own AIP which is to be retro fitted on scorpenes .. and sorry we indians do not relay on hope we keep on looking for new avenues and assets from new sources but everything is not advertised like they do in pakistan for just to mock indians

 

[harpy1]

Yes, Harpoon, Ex

That is a lot of words to say very little.

3 Agosta 90B with AIP just modernised by Turkey

8 Hangor being made, 1 launched already. AIP

IN

Kilos are ancient, to the point of not being considered modern anymore. no AIP

U209s are now around 40 years old and have not been modernnised. no AIP

6 scorpenes - modern, no AIP

Effectively India has 6 modern SSKs, (no AIP), Pakistan has 3. in 2 years Pakistan will have 11. India will still have 6.

No further SSKs actually ordered. No one knows when they will be but you seem to be relying on "hope".....

ocet, Barbur 3, C-602 and YJ-12 are "jokes".....

Who cares about Aip on a 30 year old Agosta it's noisy and non stealth with inferior depth and weapons period

You have not one single hangor
The other seven are decade away you have no money to fofill the contract

So come back when your serious country with serious budget

Your subs can't stop rafale bombing krachi and gwader from the air full stop

 

[DDG-80]

Kilos are ancient, to the point of not being considered modern anymore. no AIP

●Kilo-class submarines have an anechoic coating on their hull. This rubbery material absorbs sonar waves, reducing the submarine's acoustic signature and making it harder to detect with active sonar. These tiles also help attenuate sounds that are emitted from the submarine, thus reducing the range at which the submarine may be detected by passive sonar.

●The machinery in Kilo-class submarines is mounted on vibration-dampening platforms to prevent the transmission of noise to the hull.

●The design of the hull is streamlined to minimize hydrodynamic noise. This includes a teardrop shape that reduces water resistance and noise as the submarine moves through the water.

●The last four Indian Kilo class submarines have been fitted with the USHUS-2 sonar system. This includes passive, active, intercept, and obstacle avoidance sonar, along with underwater telephony capabilities, significantly enhancing their detection and communication capabilities.

 

[DDG-80]

U209s are now around 40 years old and have not been modernnised.

Your info on Indian U209 subs is off. Yeah, the first couple are around 40, but the next two are in their 30s. And they've all had serious upgrades, man. So, calling it 'no modernization' is straight-up wrong.

MoD inks a ₹2725 cr deal with MDL for INS Shankush submarine

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has signed a contract with Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDL) for the Medium Refit with Life Certification (MRLC) of INS Shankush, a submarine of the Indian Navy. This project enhances combat capability, supports the industrial ecosystem, and generates employment.

www.thehindubusinessline.com

 

[DDG-80]

6 scorpenes - modern, no AIP

Check it out, we've rolled out our own PAFC AIP system and it's set for the Kalvari-class subs – deal's done. Meanwhile, what's your plan besides rolling with those loud Stirling engine subs? Time to level up, right?

Addition of these green AIP Module in submarines is believed to add India to the club of a handful of nations who have indigeneously developed the the fuel cell based AIP System.

L&T, DRDO sign contract for AIP System for submarines of Indian Navy

Larsen & Toubro (L&T) and the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) have signed a contract to provide two Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) System Modules for the Indian Navy's Kalvari Class submarines. The AIP Modules will be manufactured, integrated and undergo factory acceptance...

economictimes.indiatimes.com