TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions

[MMM-E]

For now for sure we know the Turkiye propulsion for even 5th gen is not there yet, even the future Turkiye turbofan engine will have only thrust 35k lbf which is equal to older F119, while top engine maker is working on 45K lfb thrust or beyond. Even current F-135 and WS-15 already have thrust about 40K lbf 5k lbf more powerful than future Turkiye turbofan for KAAN.

Same users with false flag accounts

TF-35.000 is latest technology turbofan Engine project for 5th gen capability

F-35 use 1 x Engine ( 40.000 lbf )
KAAN use 2 x Engines ( 35.000 x 2 = 70.000 lbf )

There is a difference of 30.000 lbf between the F-35 and KAAN

 

[Antonius123]

Same users with false flag accounts

TF-35.000 is latest technology turbofan Engine project for 5th gen capability

F-35 use 1 x Engine ( 40.000 lbf )
KAAN use 2 x Engines ( 35.000 x 2 = 70.000 lbf )

No i am not him or someone else in this forum.

F-35 is light fighter just like F-16, which require only 1 engine.
While KAAN is heavy fighter just like F-22/J-22 which require twin engine, as simple as that.

So the 2 x 35.000 lbf for heavy fighter (larger than F-22) is not special esp in year 2028;

Plus it is if the target 2028 can be realized considering huge technical hurdle developer will face in developing turbofan engine.

 

[Antonius123]

4 years ago Your troll team said Turkiye can not develop KAAN
Its a public propaganda

and now still you are crying here ... same users led by DEINO Chinese troll team
wait and see how TAI will reach that

I never said that, and KAAN hasn't prove to be on par with F-22/F-35 yet.

Even if so, still it is logical fallacy to ensure certainty of what KAAN will be in year 2028 based on such case.

TAI's GM can not say whatever he want
He is not a troll like you

and TAI has enough money technology and talent to do it with other 200+ Turkish Defense Companies led by ASELSAN . HAVELSAN . TUBITAK-SAGE . TEI - TRMOTOR . etc

TAI has enough money and can work together with other subconts.

But Lockheed has much more money and work together with the most advanced subconts. So the question how TAI will realize their dream to have KAAN more advanced than future F-35/F-22 is still valid.

 

[MMM-E]

But Lockheed has much more money and work together with the most advanced subconts. So the question how TAI will realize their dream to have KAAN more advanced than future F-35/F-22 is still valid.

I shared detailed info ... how many times to enlighten troll team?

F-22 is from 1990s technology

KAAN is from 2020s with new technologies and subconts like
-- BURFIS AESA Radar ( 2.000+ GaN T/R modules )
-- IRST , EOTS , HMDS
-- DIRCM LASER Weapon for self defense
-- 360° situational awareness with 4 AESA radars
-- High-capacity networking , AI, data fusion
-- Artificial Intelligence Co-pilot
-- Pilot Health Tracking
-- excellent EW capabilities with ASELSAN FEWS -- Fighter Electronic Warfare Suite

and full data-to-decision (D2D) capability for multi-layered distributed team of diverse manned aircraft working in concert with unmanned types ( KAAN , ANKA-3, KIZILELMA )


F-22 lacks most of these capabilities
Therefore TAI's GM TEMEL KOTIL said we chose higher technology than F22

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Same users with false flag accounts

TF-35.000 is latest technology turbofan Engine project for 5th gen capability

F-35 use 1 x Engine ( 40.000 lbf )
KAAN use 2 x Engines ( 35.000 x 2 = 70.000 lbf )

Don't compare F35 with KAAN, one is medium weight jet and other heavy weight jet you comparing apples to oranges

 

[Musings]

@MMM-E
I will ask you respectfully stop trying to making this personal. Stick to the topic without abusing fellow members. Anymore and I will have to thread ban you.

 

[MMM-E]

I will ask you respectfully stop trying to making this personal. Stick to the topic without abusing fellow members. Anymore and I will have to thread ban you.

And I will ask you respectfully
Stop this Troll team who trying to abuse fellow members and trolling to deflect the facts

Nobody can call Our KAAN project as public nonsense
and Nobody can call General Menager of TAI as public nonsense

that was not my personal opinion
I shared an info from official source ( General Menager of TAI )

Thanks

 

[MMM-E]

F-35 and F-22 aren't some secret sauce, atleast the F-22 isn't. People know what the parameters for 6th gen are, its a tailless fighter, optimized for BVR, Sensor fusion, variable cycle engines etc etc..

According to WIKIPEDIA

Typical design characteristics of the 6th gen

• Advanced digital capabilities including high-capacity networking, AI, data fusion, cyber warfare, D2D and battlefield command, control and communications (C3) capabilities.
• Optionally manned, with the same airframe capable of conducting piloted, remote controlled or onboard-AI controlled missions.
• Enhanced human-systems integration, with virtual cockpits presented via helmet-mounted displays which allow the pilot 360-degree vision with AI-enhanced battlefield awareness, and replacing conventional instrument panels.
• Advanced stealth airframes and avionics.
• Advanced variable-cycle engines able to cruise economically but still deliver high thrust when required.
• Increased-range stand-off and BVR weapons.
• Potential use of directed-energy weapons such as a laser CIWS.

1 -- TAI can design and produce 6th gen platform

2-- Even KAAN has high-capacity networking, AI, data fusion
It uses artificial intelligence, Autonomy, Sensors and data fusion.
Communication uses human-machine interface technologies for this purpose

with AI-enhanced battlefield awareness ( sensor fusion with AESA Radars , EOTS and IRST )

F-22 lacks this capability


3-- Even KAAN with Artificial Intelligence Co-pilot
F-22 lacks this capability

4-- Even KAAN has HMDS and 360° situational awareness with 4 AESA radars
F-22 lacks this capability


5-- Even KAAN with Aselsan YILDIRIM-300 DIRCM directed-energy weapon as a laser CIWS.
F-22 lacks this capability



6-- Even KAAN with Increased-range BVR weapons

Thanks to GOKHAN ramjet powered long range Air to Air Missile project

Turkish Fighter provides air dominance through:

- Increased air to air engagement ranges with Novel Weapons
- Precise and accurate weapon firing from internal weapon bays at high/supersonic speed
- Augmented lethality with support of Artificial Intelligence and Neural Networks

official source

https://www.tusas.com/en/products/aircraft/indigenous-development/tf

7-- Even KAAN with full data-to-decision (D2D) capability for multi-layered distributed team of diverse manned aircraft working in concert with unmanned types ( KAAN , ANKA-3, KIZILELMA )

F-22 lacks this capability
Thanks to Turkish unmanned Technologies
Thanks to TAI Otonom Kol Uçuşu (OKU / Autonomous Wingman Concept)




8-- Now We came to the engine part

TR-MOTOR and TEI develops 35.000 lbf turbofan Engine with the latest technologies
They says about 2028-2030 ..... we will see what will happen in 2028

but Turkish turbofan Engine technology is not on paper
Turkish turbofan Engine technology on the way through TF-10.000 project

For 6th gen Fighter , TR-MOTOR -TEI should develop a variable cycle Engine after the TF-35.00 turbofan Engine like American G37 Engine

 

[hyperman]

According to WIKIPEDIA

Typical design characteristics of the 6th gen

• Advanced digital capabilities including high-capacity networking, AI, data fusion, cyber warfare, D2D and battlefield command, control and communications (C3) capabilities.
• Optionally manned, with the same airframe capable of conducting piloted, remote controlled or onboard-AI controlled missions.
• Enhanced human-systems integration, with virtual cockpits presented via helmet-mounted displays which allow the pilot 360-degree vision with AI-enhanced battlefield awareness, and replacing conventional instrument panels.
• Advanced stealth airframes and avionics.
• Advanced variable-cycle engines able to cruise economically but still deliver high thrust when required.
• Increased-range stand-off and BVR weapons.
• Potential use of directed-energy weapons such as a laser CIWS.

1 -- TAI can design and produce 6th gen platform

2-- Even KAAN has high-capacity networking, AI, data fusion
It uses artificial intelligence, Autonomy, Sensors and data fusion.
Communication uses human-machine interface technologies for this purpose

with AI-enhanced battlefield awareness ( sensor fusion with AESA Radars , EOTS and IRST )

F-22 lacks this capability


3-- Even KAAN with Artificial Intelligence Co-pilot
F-22 lacks this capability

4-- Even KAAN has HMDS and 360° situational awareness with 4 AESA radars
F-22 lacks this capability
View attachment 26875

5-- Even KAAN with Aselsan YILDIRIM-300 DIRCM directed-energy weapon as a laser CIWS.
F-22 lacks this capability
View attachment 26876


6-- Even KAAN with Increased-range BVR weapons

Thanks to GOKHAN ramjet powered long range Air to Air Missile project

Turkish Fighter provides air dominance through:

- Increased air to air engagement ranges with Novel Weapons
- Precise and accurate weapon firing from internal weapon bays at high/supersonic speed
- Augmented lethality with support of Artificial Intelligence and Neural Networks

official source

https://www.tusas.com/en/products/aircraft/indigenous-development/tf

7-- Even KAAN with full data-to-decision (D2D) capability for multi-layered distributed team of diverse manned aircraft working in concert with unmanned types ( KAAN , ANKA-3, KIZILELMA )

F-22 lacks this capability
Thanks to Turkish unmanned Technologies
Thanks to TAI Otonom Kol Uçuşu (OKU / Autonomous Wingman Concept)
View attachment 26878
View attachment 26880


8-- Now We came to the engine part

TR-MOTOR and TEI develops 35.000 lbf turbofan Engine with the latest technologies
They says about 2028-2030 ..... we will see what will happen in 2028

but Turkish turbofan Engine technology is not on paper
Turkish turbofan Engine technology on the way through TF-10.000 project

View attachment 26881


For 6th gen Fighter , TR-MOTOR -TEI should develop a variable cycle Engine after the TF-35.00 turbofan Engine like American G37 Engine
View attachment 26883

Oh btw MME, did you hear? they revised the engine parameters, apparently when they did the prelim studies they discovered that they can get more than 35,000lbf out of it. It will be closer to 40,000lbf than 35,0000. Of course we will have to see how things develop as this goes forward, we will likely get more details in the future.

 

[MMM-E]

Oh btw MME, did you hear? they revised the engine parameters, apparently when they did the prelim studies they discovered that they can get more than 35,000lbf out of it. It will be closer to 40,000lbf than 35,0000. Of course we will have to see how things develop as this goes forward, we will likely get more details in the future.

Turkiye has made amazing progress in the defense industry in just 10 years
I can't even imagine where we will be in the next 10 years.

We will meet with many new projects and technologies.
of course we will get more details for the major Turkish military projects year by year

 

[Antonius123]

And I will ask you respectfully
Stop this Troll team who trying to abuse fellow members and trolling to deflect the facts

Nobody can call Our KAAN project as public nonsense
and Nobody can call General Menager of TAI as public nonsense

that was not my personal opinion
I shared an info from official source ( General Menager of TAI )

Thanks

When you are throwing fantastic claim, you entitle other participants to questions.

We are here not just to sit hearing and swallowing what you claim, we are discussing and questioning esp when rationales are challenged. So the one who throw bombastic claim more deserve to be called troller than the questioning ones.

 

[Antonius123]

I shared detailed info ... how many times to enlighten troll team?

F-22 is from 1990s technology

KAAN is from 2020s with new technologies and subconts like
-- BURFIS AESA Radar ( 2.000+ GaN T/R modules )
-- IRST , EOTS , HMDS
-- DIRCM LASER Weapon for self defense
-- 360° situational awareness with 4 AESA radars
-- High-capacity networking , AI, data fusion
-- Artificial Intelligence Co-pilot
-- Pilot Health Tracking
-- excellent EW capabilities with ASELSAN FEWS -- Fighter Electronic Warfare Suite

and full data-to-decision (D2D) capability for multi-layered distributed team of diverse manned aircraft working in concert with unmanned types ( KAAN , ANKA-3, KIZILELMA )


F-22 lacks most of these capabilities
Therefore TAI's GM TEMEL KOTIL said we chose higher technology than F22

Sure KAAN will surpass 1990s technology on F-22, in avionics and sensors assuming no upgrade at all with F-22; but not the case with F-35 which is with up to date avionics technology.

And still F-22's TWR, maneuverability and very low observability is still difficult to surpass eventhough it was from 1990's tech.

So we still need to see how the Turkiye turbo fan engine performance will come out in year 2028.

Remember, many country exceed their target with engine development, for example China she target to finish WS-15 before 2020 but she faced technical hurdle that made the realization postponed beyond the target year.

 

[Antonius123]

According to WIKIPEDIA

Typical design characteristics of the 6th gen

• Advanced digital capabilities including high-capacity networking, AI, data fusion, cyber warfare, D2D and battlefield command, control and communications (C3) capabilities.
• Optionally manned, with the same airframe capable of conducting piloted, remote controlled or onboard-AI controlled missions.
• Enhanced human-systems integration, with virtual cockpits presented via helmet-mounted displays which allow the pilot 360-degree vision with AI-enhanced battlefield awareness, and replacing conventional instrument panels.
• Advanced stealth airframes and avionics.
• Advanced variable-cycle engines able to cruise economically but still deliver high thrust when required.
• Increased-range stand-off and BVR weapons.
• Potential use of directed-energy weapons such as a laser CIWS.

1 -- TAI can design and produce 6th gen platform

2-- Even KAAN has high-capacity networking, AI, data fusion
It uses artificial intelligence, Autonomy, Sensors and data fusion.
Communication uses human-machine interface technologies for this purpose

with AI-enhanced battlefield awareness ( sensor fusion with AESA Radars , EOTS and IRST )

F-22 lacks this capability


3-- Even KAAN with Artificial Intelligence Co-pilot
F-22 lacks this capability

4-- Even KAAN has HMDS and 360° situational awareness with 4 AESA radars
F-22 lacks this capability
View attachment 26875

5-- Even KAAN with Aselsan YILDIRIM-300 DIRCM directed-energy weapon as a laser CIWS.
F-22 lacks this capability
View attachment 26876


6-- Even KAAN with Increased-range BVR weapons

Thanks to GOKHAN ramjet powered long range Air to Air Missile project

Turkish Fighter provides air dominance through:

- Increased air to air engagement ranges with Novel Weapons
- Precise and accurate weapon firing from internal weapon bays at high/supersonic speed
- Augmented lethality with support of Artificial Intelligence and Neural Networks

official source

https://www.tusas.com/en/products/aircraft/indigenous-development/tf

7-- Even KAAN with full data-to-decision (D2D) capability for multi-layered distributed team of diverse manned aircraft working in concert with unmanned types ( KAAN , ANKA-3, KIZILELMA )

F-22 lacks this capability
Thanks to Turkish unmanned Technologies
Thanks to TAI Otonom Kol Uçuşu (OKU / Autonomous Wingman Concept)
View attachment 26878
View attachment 26880


8-- Now We came to the engine part

TR-MOTOR and TEI develops 35.000 lbf turbofan Engine with the latest technologies
They says about 2028-2030 ..... we will see what will happen in 2028

but Turkish turbofan Engine technology is not on paper
Turkish turbofan Engine technology on the way through TF-10.000 project

View attachment 26881


For 6th gen Fighter , TR-MOTOR -TEI should develop a variable cycle Engine after the TF-35.00 turbofan Engine like American G37 Engine
View attachment 26883

You are comparing old generation 1995's F-22 with future 2028 KAAN, which is of irrational comparison.

Why dont you compare the upgraded F-22 with the future KAAN 2028? Don't forget KAAN is still in development stage same like upgraded F-22.

The upgraded F-22 will have some share technology with NGAD; they will also have IRST etc, except HMS due to airframe limitation + budget cut because USAF prefer budget for NGAD rather than total upgrade of F-22.

The F-22 Is Finally Getting Some Much Needed Upgrades

The new upgrades for the F-22 have been teased both in official Air Force artworks and FY23 budget. 25 years after it entered service in the U.S. Air

theaviationist.com

And in fact besides F-22 is having these features that you mentioned above (IRST, EOTS, etc), F-22 is also sharing some 6th gen technology with NGAD.

Remember, KAAN is still in development stage. The features that you mentioned above may not exist yet in the current prototype of KAAN that recently flied.

And all the features you said above from: IRST, Gan AESA, HMS, EOTS, data fusion etc have already existed in F-35 and J-20, even in 4.5 gen J-10C and J-16 but not yet in current KAAN prototype.

F-22 Modernization and upgrades[edit]​

The F-22 and its subsystems were designed to be upgraded over its life cycle in anticipation for technological advances and evolving threats. The modernization and upgrades consist of software and hardware modifications captured under numbered Increments, originally called Spirals, as well as software-only Operational Flight Program (OFP) Updates.[91] Amid debates over the airplane's relevance in asymmetric counterinsurgency warfare, the first Increments and OFP Updates primarily focused on ground attack, or strike capabilities. Increment 2, the first upgrade program, was implemented in 2005 for Block 20 aircraft onward and enabled the employment of Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM). The improved AN/APG-77(V)1 radar, which incorporates air-to-ground modes, was certified in March 2007 and fitted on airframes from Lot 5 onward.[92] Increment 3.1 and Updates 3 and 4 for Block 30/35 aircraft improved ground-attack capabilities through synthetic aperture radar (SAR) mapping and radio emitter direction finding, electronic attack and Small Diameter Bomb (SDB) integration; testing began in 2009 and the first upgraded aircraft was delivered in 2011.[93][94] To address oxygen deprivation issues, F-22s were fitted with an automatic backup oxygen system (ABOS) and modified life support system starting in 2012.[95]​

​

​

A Block 30 F-22A of the 411th Flight Test Squadron test-fires an AIM-9X in 2015.​

In contrast to prior upgrades, Increment 3.2 for Block 30/35 aircraft emphasized air combat capabilities as well as improved communications and was a two-part process. 3.2A focused on electronic warfare, communications and identification including Link 16 receive-only capability, while 3.2B included geolocation improvements and full integration of the AIM-9X and AIM-120D; fleet releases began in 2013 and 2019, respectively. Concurrent with Increment 3.2, Update 5 in 2016 added Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System (AGCAS), datalink updates, and more.[96][97] Update 6, deployed in tandem with 3.2B, incorporated cryptographic and avionics stability enhancements. The Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Joint Tactical Radio System (MIDS-JTRS) for Tactical Mandates, including Mode 5 IFF and Link 16 transmit/receive capability was installed starting in 2021, and the airplane can also use the Battlefield Airborne Communications Node (BACN) as a two-way communication gateway.[98][99]​

​

Following Increment 3.2B, the F-22's mission computers were upgraded with open mission system (OMS) processor modules and architecture while an agile software development process in conjunction with a Kubernetes-based orchestration system was implemented to enable faster enhancements from additional vendors. Subsequent software updates have since been implemented through numbered Releases on an annual basis.[100][101]​

​

Additional upgrades currently being tested include new sensors and antennas, integration of new weapons including the AIM-260 JATM, and reliability improvements such as more durable stealth coatings; the dedicated advanced IRST, originally deleted during Dem/Val, is one of the new sensors added.[102][103] Other developments include all-aspect IRST functionality for the Missile Launch Detector (MLD), manned-unmanned teaming capability with uncrewed collaborative combat aircraft or "loyal wingmen", and cockpit improvements.[99][104][105] To preserve the aircraft's stealth while enabling additional payload and fuel capacity, stealthy external carriage has been investigated since the mid-2000s, with a low drag, low-observable 600-gallon external tank and pylon currently under development to increase stealthy combat radius.[106] The planned Multifunction Advanced Data Link (MADL) integration was cut due to development delays and lack of proliferation among USAF platforms. Although the Thales Scorpion helmet-mounted cuing system (HMCS) was successfully tested on the F-22 in 2013, funding cuts prevented its deployment.[107] Lockheed Martin has proposed upgrading all Block 20 training aircraft to Block 30/35 in order to increase numbers available for combat.[49] The F-22 has also been used to test technology for its eventual successor from the Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) program; some advances are expected to be applied to the F-22 as well.[108]​

 

[Ali_Baba]

Has there been any subsequent test flights? If so - how hours has she clocked up yet ?

 

[Merzifonlu]

Has there been any subsequent test flights? If so - how hours has she clocked up yet ?

No. Analysis of data from the first flight continues.

I don't think this prototype will be flown more than 3-4 times. Detailed flight tests will be carried out with the second prototype and subsequent prototypes. This prototype will return to its original function. That is, system integration tests.