TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

And I will ask you respectfully
Stop this Troll team who trying to abuse fellow members and trolling to deflect the facts

Nobody can call Our KAAN project as public nonsense
and Nobody can call General Menager of TAI as public nonsense

that was not my personal opinion
I shared an info from official source ( General Menager of TAI )

Thanks

Oh dude how do your general manager of TAI that we are building better jet than F-22/F35 do he knows what classified systems using by both F35/F-22, and surely this is for only public consumption not reality he is talking about

 

[hyperman]

Oh dude how do your general manager of TAI that we are building better jet than F-22/F35 do he knows what classified systems using by both F35/F-22, and surely this is for only public consumption not reality he is talking about

uhhh yes, the general parameters of the F-22 are pretty well known, if they are working on 6th gen tech, it means a tailless fighter, which should in theory have a smaller RCS than the F-22.

its like saying oh, you don't know about the classified things on the F-15 ergo, you cannot build something that surpasses the F-15 in capability by designing a 5th gen aircraft. There are certain design parameters for 6th gen fighter if met, in theory will surpass 5th gen fighters. He doesn't give a timeline but of course eventually if they are successful, by the time it comes to fruition it will exceed. why is that so difficult to grasp?

 

[Antonius123]

uhhh yes, the general parameters of the F-22 are pretty well known, if they are working on 6th gen tech, it means a tailless fighter, which should in theory have a smaller RCS than the F-22.

its like saying oh, you don't know about the classified things on the F-15 ergo, you cannot build something that surpasses the F-15 in capability by designing a 5th gen aircraft. There are certain design parameters for 6th gen fighter if met, in theory will surpass 5th gen fighters. He doesn't give a timeline but of course eventually if they are successful, by the time it comes to fruition it will exceed. why is that so difficult to grasp?

What we could know so far is how complete the equipment to be installed on the upgrade F-22.

I dont think we could find out the parameter of the avionics, etc on the upgraded F-22, such as: AESA's beam steering, LPI, resolution, etc; or IRST detection range/resolution etc, so that we can compare with the same from KAAN, while these parameters are determinant in engagement. Not to mention the RCS and TWR (thrust to weight ratio) which are determinant factor as well in engagement.

What we can assume now US has better technology and experience than Turkiye.

 

[hyperman]

What we could know so far is how complete the equipment to be installed on the upgrade F-22.

I dont think we could find out the parameter of the avionics, etc on the upgraded F-22, such as: AESA's beam steering, LPI, resolution, etc; or IRST detection range/resolution etc, so that we can compare with the same from KAAN, while these parameters are determinant in engagement. Not to mention the RCS and TWR (thrust to weight ratio) which are determinant factor as well in engagement.

What we can assume now US has better technology and experience than Turkiye.

This just seems like gibberish. Can you give specifics? what specific sensors are on the F-22 that aren't on the KAAN? You are just creating conjectures that b/c its US built its automatically better despite the fact that the jet is 3 decades old and is nearing retirement compared to a fighter with never avionics set to be built in the future.

much of the avionics on the F-22 are older and unupgraded.

regardless, we aren't talking about the KAAN, we are talking about what comes after KAAN, i.e. 6th gen concepts. you are using a strawman arguement here, why even discuss KAAN, the original statement is about 6th gen fighters being developed that will surpass 5th gen fighters like the F-22.

 

[Antonius123]

This just seems like gibberish. Can you give specifics? what specific sensors are on the F-22 that aren't on the KAAN? You are just creating conjectures that b/c its US built its automatically better despite the fact that the jet is 3 decades old and is nearing retirement compared to a fighter with never avionics set to be built in the future.

much of the avionics on the F-22 are older and unupgraded.

regardless, we aren't talking about the KAAN, we are talking about what comes after KAAN, i.e. 6th gen concepts. you are using a strawman arguement here, why even discuss KAAN, the original statement is about 6th gen fighters being developed that will surpass 5th gen fighters like the F-22.

I am not saying the avionics/sensors of the current/upgraded F-22 will be better than those of KAAN; which from my statements that you think I am saying so?

And who is comparing old F-22 with KAAN? I am comparing the upgraded F-22 with the upcoming KAAN; and who said someone can give specific details of F-22?

No, we are talking about KAAN which is claimed to be better than F-22.

I dont understand why and how could you miss the points so much and saying other gibberish while the severe missunderstanding is on your side.

 

[Pioneer]

Two questions are very important now.

1. How many flight hours does KAAN have?

2. What is KAAN’s estimated annual output? How many KAANs are there now?

 

[Merzifonlu]

Two questions are very important now.

1. How many flight hours does KAAN have?

2. What is KAAN’s estimated annual output? How many KAANs are there now?

1.- 0 (zero) Hours now.
2.- 24 Kaan annual estimated. 0 (zero) Kaan now.

 

[MMM-E]

GM of TAI said that we chose higher technology than F-22


That means KAAN will be 5+ plus generation at the last stage in 2030s
and work has begun for 6 gen Fighter

Some 6th gen features on KAAN that makes KAAN hard to beat in combat senario ....
to strike first and surprise its enemies

1 -- High-capacity networking , AI, data fusion
2 -- Artificial Intelligence Co-pilot
3 -- HMDS and 360° situational awareness .... (AI-enhanced battlefield awareness)
4 -- DIRCM directed-energy weapon as a laser CIWS
5 -- Increased air to air engagement ranges with Novel Weapons
6 -- Augmented lethality with support of Artificial Intelligence and Neural Networks
7 -- Full data-to-decision (D2D) capability for multi-layered distributed team of diverse manned aircraft working in concert with unmanned types ( KAAN , ANKA-3, KIZILELMA )


Features that KAAN will have at the last stage

1 -- New 35.000 lbf turbofan Engine with the latest technologies to reduce its infrared and acoustic signatures

2 -- Supercruise capability without using afterburners

3 -- Powerful Main Generators ( 2 x 120 kw = 240 kw )
powerful electrical power capacity to power DIRCM LASER and huge AESA Radar
( F-16 has 60kw main Generator )

4-- BURFIS AESA Radar with GaN technology ... ( 2.000+ T/R modules ) to detect 1m2 RCS target from 200 km

5 -- RCS value for X band 10GHz as 0.0030 m2 [ -25dbsqm ]
KAAN has stealth design , advanced magnetic coating , RAM panel layer and internal weapon bay for low RCS ....
offical demonstration




What needs to be discussed here is not whether KAAN will be better than the F-22 or not

USA can modenize F-22 with the most modern Systems
USA minimum 30 years ahead of whole World in technology

USA developed even a variable cycle afterburning turbofan engine GE-37 in 1990s
and to develop 6th gen Fighter so easy for USA

 

[hodor]

I am not saying the avionics/sensors of the current/upgraded F-22 will be better than those of KAAN; which from my statements that you think I am saying so?

And who is comparing old F-22 with KAAN? I am comparing the upgraded F-22 with the upcoming KAAN; and who said someone can give specific details of F-22?

No, we are talking about KAAN which is claimed to be better than F-22.

I dont understand why and how could you miss the points so much and saying other gibberish while the severe missunderstanding is on your side.

Temel Kotil said we have chosen higher technology than the F22/F35. This is just a goal.

It's up to you whether you believe it or not.

 

[Antonius123]

GM of TAI said that we chose higher technology than F-22


That means KAAN will be 5+ plus generation at the last stage in 2030s

Some 6th gen features on KAAN that makes KAAN hard to beat in combat senario ....
to strike first and surprise its enemies

1 -- High-capacity networking , AI, data fusion
2 -- Artificial Intelligence Co-pilot
3 -- HMDS and 360° situational awareness .... (AI-enhanced battlefield awareness)
4 -- DIRCM directed-energy weapon as a laser CIWS
5 -- Increased air to air engagement ranges with Novel Weapons
6 -- Augmented lethality with support of Artificial Intelligence and Neural Networks
7 -- Full data-to-decision (D2D) capability for multi-layered distributed team of diverse manned aircraft working in concert with unmanned types ( KAAN , ANKA-3, KIZILELMA )


Features that KAAN will have at the last stage

1 -- New 35.000 lbf turbofan Engine with the latest technologies to reduce its infrared and acoustic signatures

2 -- Supercruise capability without using afterburners

3 -- BURFIS AESA Radar with GaN technology ... ( 2.000+ T/R modules ) to detect 1m2 RCS target from 200 km

4 -- RCS value for X band 10GHz as 0.0030 m2 [ -25dbsqm ]
KAAN has stealth design , advanced magnetic coating , RAM panel layer and internal weapon bay for low RCS .... ( RCS value for X band 10GHz as 0.0030 m2 [ -25dbsqm ]
offical demonstration
View attachment 27013
View attachment 27014


What needs to be discussed here is not whether KAAN will be better than the F-22 or not

USA can modenize F-22 with the most modern Systems
USA minimum 30 years ahead of whole World in technology

USA developed even a variable cycle afterburning turbofan engine GE-37 in 1990s

Nobody can answer this question: "whether KAAN will be better than the F-22 or not", including the GM of TAI himself. He definitely doesn't know the real RCS of F-22 and other parameters of the F-22's radar, EWS, etc. Even if he knows, He can not guarantee whether the KAAN will achieve what he claim/target.

All you mention above is still "expectation" not the reality yet.

From all features you mentioned above, only HMS that F-22 lack, but the upgraded F-22 will have the remainders.

But for sure F-22 have the following edge:
F-22 have greater Thrust to weight ration, hence will give it an edge in both EWR and BVR.
F-22 has 2D thrust vectoring engine while KAAN will not have, will give F-22 an edge in WVR

4 -- RCS value for X band 10GHz as 0.0030 m2 [ -25dbsqm ]
KAAN has stealth design , advanced magnetic coating , RAM panel layer and internal weapon bay for low RCS .... ( RCS value for X band 10GHz as 0.0030 m2 [ -25dbsqm ]
offical demonstration
View attachment 27013

Judging from the requirement itself, it is obvious that the RCS of KAAN falls under LO region only while F-22 falls under VLO region, which means F-22 will be significantly much stealthier.

And this is the analysis on the prototype recently flied:

Turkey’s new Kaan stealth fighter aircraft versus the F-22 Raptor

The TAI KAAN – Turkiye’s 5th Gen Fighter – How does it stack up? First of all, a little digression. How come Turkiye is developing, and flying a prototype 5th Gen Fighter? This is a valid que…

hushkit.net

So from the stealthiness, KAAN will be certainly below F-22.

 

[MMM-E]

Nobody can answer this question: "whether KAAN will be better than the F-22 or not", including the GM of TAI himself. He definitely doesn't know the real RCS of F-22 and other parameters of the F-22's radar, EWS, etc. Even if he knows, He can not guarantee whether the KAAN will achieve what he claim/target.

People knows what about F-22 with older technologies from 1990s

This is 2024 ....

He can guarantee what he claim
He very well know what about Turkish defense İndustry which develops everything for the KAAN 5+ gen capability at the last stage in 2030s

and He is not talking about only KAAN
work has begun for 6 gen Fighter to design more stealthier platform than 5th gen Fighters including F-22

From all features you mentioned above, only HMS that F-22 lack, but the upgraded F-22 will have the remainders.

He is talking about currently F-22
And currently F-22 lacks

1 -- High-capacity networking , AI, data fusion
2 -- Artificial Intelligence Co-pilot
3 -- HMDS and 360° situational awareness .... (AI-enhanced battlefield awareness)
4 -- DIRCM directed-energy weapon as a laser CIWS
5 -- IRST and EOTS
6 -- Augmented lethality with support of Artificial Intelligence and Neural Networks
7 -- Full data-to-decision (D2D) capability for multi-layered distributed team of diverse manned aircraft working in concert with unmanned types


Now show me from official source what about F-22 upgrade ?

 

[MMM-E]

Judging from the requirement itself, it is obvious that the RCS of KAAN falls under LO region only while F-22 falls under VLO region, which means F-22 will be significantly much stealthier.

And this is the analysis on the prototype recently flied:

They are talking about this stage over currently prototype with GE-F110 Engines

They can compare F-22 with KAAN for stealth capability at the last stage in 2030s

 

[Antonius123]

People knows what about F-22 with older technologies from 1990s

This is 2024 ....

He can guarantee what he claim
He very well know what about Turkish defense İndustry which develops everything for the KAAN 5+ gen capability at the last stage in 2030s

and work has begun for 6 gen Fighter

To be frankly I dont believe his guarantee.
How he will achieve it is still questionable.

He is talking about currently F-22

Look at the TAI's targeted RCS for KAAN above; still significantly higher than old/current F-22.
Also TWR and 2D TVC that even the next propulsion will not have.

And currently F-22 lacks

1 -- High-capacity networking , AI, data fusion
2 -- Artificial Intelligence Co-pilot
3 -- HMDS and 360° situational awareness .... (AI-enhanced battlefield awareness)
4 -- DIRCM directed-energy weapon as a laser CIWS
5 -- IRST and EOTS
6 -- Augmented lethality with support of Artificial Intelligence and Neural Networks
7 -- Full data-to-decision (D2D) capability for multi-layered distributed team of diverse manned aircraft working in concert with unmanned types

Is KAAN planned to have DIRCM too? any source?

Now show me from official source what about F-22 upgrade ?

Already given yesterday.

And as I've told you, except the HMS - F-22 will have IRST and share NGAD technology for the avionics.

The F-22 Is Finally Getting Some Much Needed Upgrades

The new upgrades for the F-22 have been teased both in official Air Force artworks and FY23 budget. 25 years after it entered service in the U.S. Air

theaviationist.com

Do you think NGAD will have no AI co pilot, highly advanced network, data fusion, direct energy weapon, D2D?

 

[MMM-E]

To be frankly I dont believe his guarantee.
How he will achieve it is still questionable.

We dont care about you who is nothing

Is KAAN planned to have DIRCM too? any source?

Turkey's Aselsan Developing Anti-missile Countermeasures for KAAN Fighter

Turkey's Aselsan Developing Anti-missile Countermeasures for KAAN Fighter

www.defensemirror.com

 

[MMM-E]

Do you think NGAD will have no AI co pilot, highly advanced network, data fusion, direct energy weapon, D2D?

We are talking about F22 ..... not NDAG

F-22 upgrade consist of some avionic modernization
F-22's head-up display (HUD) by upgrading it to a full digital version

nothing else .....

No DIRCM
No Artificial Intelligence Co-pilot
No 360° situational awareness .... (AI-enhanced battlefield awareness )
No Augmented lethality with support of Artificial Intelligence and Neural Networks
No Full data-to-decision (D2D) capability for multi-layered distributed team of diverse manned aircraft working in concert with unmanned types