TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

There are many people who don't believe that Turkey can build a fifth-generation aircraft, even though it has made its first flight. Honestly, it seems unbelievable even to me. Sometimes I think I'm dreaming.

So it is not surprising that people find it difficult to accept this reality.

All great truths begin as blasphemies - George Bernard Shaw

It's almost religious-level blasphemy for them to accept the resurgence of Turkey. They've been employing every trick in their playbook for centuries to kill her from both outside and inside. Yet, she is surging ahead, especially in the fields that matter most.....

 

[retaxis]

All great truths begin as blasphemies - George Bernard Shaw

It's almost religious-level blasphemy for them to accept the resurgence of Turkey. They've been employing every trick in their playbook for centuries to kill her from both outside and inside. Yet, she is surging ahead, especially in the fields that matter most.....

I would be riding this train if the Inflation for January wasn't 66%. Hope they fix the big issue first because with money, comes military and better living standards.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

We all know it is difficult to build a 35.000 lb engine. I think Mahmut Faruk Akşit said that to put it in a simple way. He is one of the 5 most successful managers working in the defense industry in Turkey.

The best engineering achievements are realized through meticulous planning, linear progression through impeccably built detailed modules, and leaving nothing to chances to fight back the Murphy's laws...

Prof Aksit's teams have first built the "library of components" by individually designing, fabricating and testing them for high functionality, reliability and quality. Moreover, extensive simulation models are generated to paly with the critical parameters to emulate real-life scenarios, albeit in the realm of the "hex codes". Now, they're integrating them into their choice of final products while conducting laborious and expansive tests and verification at every milestone on its way. It means they can "debug" the flows and shortcoming early and can easily point to the responsible fundamental modules, which need to be fine-tuned further. It's an infinitely tiresome and painstaking job, and there're no short-cuts to circumvent the Laws of Nature put at the first place by HIM. You blink first, and you're dead...

 

[UKBengali]

While this is undoubtedly a great success for Turkey, there are two large potential bottlenecks:

1. A true high performance engine with at least 10:1 T/W ratio. It would need performance on par with F-119 on F-22 or the new WS-15 on J-20. An engine of this calibre will allow Kaan to sustain high Mach-1 cruise speeds without the use of afterburners.

2. Lots of money, as only the US and China have so much resources that they can throw unlimited money to develop something as complex as a 5th generation fighter.

Turkey won't get to the "finished" product in the 2030s but will at least have something much better than any version of F-16 currently available and probably at least on par with Greek F-35s.

 

[Waz]

China had to start from scratch, Turkey had the benefit of being a part of various NATO supply/manufacturing lines.

There is a clear difference.

So far, Turkey has either been close to, or has exceeded time-line expectations.

They've done extremely well.

No one even thought that Turkey would even get this far, yet here we are.

Also Turkey is getting technical help from existing engine developers such as Ivchenko-Progress which is speeding things along.

And BAE and Rolls Royce.

 

[MMM-E]

And Rolls Royce.

No any technical support from ROLLS ROYCE

TEI and IVCHENKO PROGRESS work to develop 35.000 lbf Engine under TR-MOTOR

 

[MMM-E]

According to TAI
KAAN will be ready for export in the next 6 years


USA doesnt sell F-35 to any muslim Country
China doesnt sale J-20 ..... maybe only J-31 to Pakistan
Russia can sell SU-57

KAAN will be superior to F-15 . F-16 . RAFALE . Eurofighter . SU-35 . SU-57

so There won't be any alternative to KAAN on sale in 2030s
Pakistan . Egypt , Qatar , The UAE , S.Arabia , Maleysia use American-European Fighter Jets and all of these Countries can not buy F-35 or J-20


in 2030s Turkiye can sell KAAN to many Countries as like TB-2 and AKINCI UCAVs
even together with ANKA-3 and ANKA-4 unmanned stealth Fighter Jets to operate with the KAAN for future tactical air combat concept

https://twitter.com/x/status/1761778996914610413

 

[MMM-E]

TAI General Manager Temel Kotil


Turkish Engine is coming to KAAN in 2028.

We, as TAI, will also build the ejection seat.. It will be 100% Turkish made.

The 20 KAANs to be delivered in 2028. KAAN has more modern systems than the F-35.

They do not give F-35 to friendly countries. Then their only plane was KAAN.

In 2030-2032, we will have aircraft that will meet the needs of 2-3 countries.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1761312329403093372

 

[MMM-E]

 

[Waz]

Does anyone know what the current stage of the 35.000 lbf Engine under TR-MOTOR is?

The TF-10000 is underpowered. at 6,000lbs of dry thrust.

 

[Mr X]

Sorry for off-topic

But Kaan reminds me of JF-17 project. The Americans blocked the sale of F-16s to Pakistan and they started exploring other options. Some countries were hesitant to sell to Pakistan and they decided to build one by themselves in collaboration with China.

America refused F-35 to Turkey and they started exploring other options. Germany was hestitant to sell Eurofighter and they now have KAAN.

America refusing the fighter jets is a blessing in disguise

 

[Harbyharb]

Yes, but you see the J-20 doesn't supercruise without the WS-15 either, neither does the F-15EX, neither of those jets are considered underpowered, that was my point.

To be entirely fair accusing the J-20 as being underpowered happens every other Tuesday for average military forums

F-15EX isn't considered underpowered because its engines are suitable for what the F-15EX is, a missile/bomb truck, stacked with CFTs and ordinance on tandem hardpoints, hauling this load of fuel and munition to where they are needed in mostly subsonic flights.

That's not what J-20 is set out to do. Like F-22, the need for sustained supersonic flight goes much further than just "supercruise", getting to where they are needed fast, but also to more easily enter or even sustain supersonic flight while engaged in maneuver combat. This is especially true for J-20, which have an even greater aerodynamic emphasis on supersonic performance, where just by staying within supersonic speeds while defending, evading, recommitting, and firing missiles, the J-20 can dominate a 4th gen opponent through sheer kinematic performance alone. WS-10/AL-31 just isn't powerful/efficient enough in supersonic speeds for that.

 

[hyperman]

Does anyone know what the current stage of the 35.000 lbf Engine under TR-MOTOR is?

The TF-10000 is underpowered. at 6,000lbs of dry thrust.

Still in the design phase, we don't know how far along it it. details still being worked out whether there will be a collaboration with RollsRoyce of Ivenchenko Progress, they haven't released these details to the public, although I believe Ivchenko Progress has been involved in certain things.

They will test the the TF6000 soon, then an afterburner version of the same fan, which is apparently supposed to be the TF10000 and then the TF35000 will come after those two. The TF6000 and the TF10000 are supposed to power the Kizilelma A and Kizilelma B, as well as the ANKA 3 and 4 drones.

 

[hyperman]

F-15EX isn't considered underpowered because its engines are suitable for what the F-15EX is, a missile/bomb truck, stacked with CFTs and ordinance on tandem hardpoints, hauling this load of fuel and munition to where they are needed in mostly subsonic flights.

So no version of the F-15 was ever meant to be an Air Superiority or Multi Role? cuz Im pretty sure no matter which variant of the F-15, whether with the GE F110 or the PW F100, none of them are considered underpowered.

If anything, the GE F110-29 is consider one of the more powerful variants and outperforms the PW engine. only the F110-32 would have been an upgrade to the 29, but it hasn't been tested in dual engine configurations, so Turkey opted to stay with the 29.

 

[Harbyharb]

So no version of the F-15 was ever meant to be an Air Superiority or Multi Role? cuz Im pretty sure no matter which variant of the F-15, whether with the GE F110 or the PW F100, none of them are considered underpowered.

If anything, the GE F110-29 is consider one of the more powerful variants and outperforms the PW engine. only the F110-32 would have been an upgrade to the 29, but it hasn't been tested in dual engine configurations, so Turkey opted to stay with the 29.

They can and still occupy Air Superiority roles, ditching their CFTs, go clean with just 4-6 amramms on tandem hardpoint, lit their afterburners and that baby can still give you mach 2+, but that's the problem, they would need afterburners for that, which multiplies fuel consumption several times fold.

They still would only be in supersonic flight for very very limited amount of time compared to what 5th gen are set out for. Occassionally entering supersonic flight as needed vs staying in supersonic flight (especially without afterburners)