TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions

[MMM-E]

Turkey does not even have a domestic turbofan fighter engine developed yet of any generation and to think they can develop something like this by the 2030s is far too wishful thinking I am sorry to say.

Turkiye has developed TS-1400 Turboshaft Engine within 7 years ... ( 2017-2025 )
and serial production start in 2025


China has started developing J-20 in 1990s and made the first flight in 2011

KAAN project has officially started in 2018 and made the first flight in 2024... just 6 years ..
even Turkiye first time developed a Fighter Jet

General Manager of TAI Temel Kotil said
"KAAN was completed in a very short time, it is the fastest completed Fighter Jet in the World"

in 2023 People with the same personality who have no shame said that will KAAN ever fly ?



Everybody will see what will happen in 2028-2032 period with Turkish 35.000 lbf turbofan Engine
btw TF-6000 turbofan Engine was ignited first time day ago

 

[hodor]

Much as I want Turkey to succeed, I think there is next to no chance that Turkey will have a 35,000lb engine ready even in the 2030s.

Turkey cannot defy the accepted norms of engineering and remember that high-performance turbofans are as much art as science. There is no shortcut to massive experience and trial and error.

Even China only started putting the WS-15 engine for the J-20 into mass production last year and that was over a decade after it put the WS-10B(F-110 class) into mass production on the J-11B back in 2009.

Russia has now fallen behind the Chinese as they do not have their own 35,000lb thrust-class engine for Su-57 in production yet. They have so much legacy Soviet experience but are really struggling at developing such a high thrust fighter engine.

Turkey does not even have a domestic turbofan fighter engine developed yet of any generation and to think they can develop something like this by the 2030s is far too wishful thinking I am sorry to say.

TEI has been producing parts for GE for 50 years. It is GE's most successful and largest subcontractor in the world. Turkey is not far from turbofan engines. In the 90s, we produced f110 engines for f-16s under license. We are compared with China a lot, but maybe we can be better than China.

 

[UKBengali]

TEI has been producing parts for GE for 50 years. It is GE's most successful and largest subcontractor in the world. Turkey is not far from turbofan engines. In the 90s, we produced f110 engines for f-16s under license. We are compared with China a lot, but maybe we can be better than China.

Producing the lower tech stuff in an engine from a blueprint gives little actual know-how into the secrets of producing the high pressure core and the turbine blades. These will be both "black boxes" that GE will have supplied to Turkey just like GE did with France with the CFM engine.

Apart from the USA and China who have both successfully developed a 35-40,000lb class low-bypass turbofan engine, only the UK is currently thought to be capable due to decades of experience of producing engines for both fighter planes and also civilian airliners. I actually am not too confident that Russia will be able to produce one with high enough reliability and lifespan compared to the US and China.

 

[acount32]

Friends, is there a machine gun project for MMU KAAN? I did not see such an area neither in the project nor on the aircraft.

 

[MMM-E]

Producing the lower tech stuff in an engine from a blueprint gives little actual know-how into the secrets of producing the high pressure core and the turbine blades. These will be both "black boxes" that GE will have supplied to Turkey just like GE did with France with the CFM engine.

Turkiye has developed everything for GAS Turbine Engines for both Turboshaft and Turbofan with the latest technologies

from 5-stage compressors to bliks-spool manufacturing technology
from nozzle and afterburner technologies to single crystal blades

also advanced material - process for aircraft engine components Titanium and Nickel Based Superalloys between 2014 and 2019 when our NATO allies imposed embargo on Turkey for even materials


İf you know nothing about Turkish Defense Industry stop giving false info

and When Ukrainian Ivchenko Progress developed 51.000 lbf turbofan Engine in 1980s , China did not know even what about Engine

Same users first they said that Turkiye can not develop KAAN in even 2030s
now They say that Turkiye can not develop engine even in 2030s

Turkiye has its own agenda to develop everything including Engine .... wait and see

 

[retaxis]

TEI has been producing parts for GE for 50 years. It is GE's most successful and largest subcontractor in the world. Turkey is not far from turbofan engines. In the 90s, we produced f110 engines for f-16s under license. We are compared with China a lot, but maybe we can be better than China.

Well considering that you have had NATO interoptability and sharing tech for the last 70 years while China was sanctioned by the NATO/USSR, I would hope you can do better.

 

[retaxis]

This is incorrect.

China was transferred a lot of technology by the Soviet Union during its honeymoon, which gave China a solid foundation for development. In addition, in the 80s, China bought a lot of military technology from Western countries. When relations with the West broke down in the 1990s, China could turn to buying weapons from Russia with TOT.

In short, China is one of the few countries that can procure and receive technology transfers from both sides. Something that Türkiye and other countries cannot do.

Soviet Union sanctioned China in the early 60s and China brought nil advanced weaponry in the West e.g. jet fighters or attack helicopters etc and was sanctioned by west after tiananmen in 80s. Everything China has, it did by themselves through whatever means they can formulate. Even by the 2000s, Russia would sell crap 3rd tier weapons to China (making sure the tier of weapon was always below India e.g. SU-MKK for China and SU-MKI for India). China managed to reverse engineer everything themselves and also through espionage against enemies but actual TOT and help from USSR/West was pretty much non existant.

 

[Oublious]

Much as I want Turkey to succeed, I think there is next to no chance that Turkey will have a 35,000lb engine ready even in the 2030s.

Turkey cannot defy the accepted norms of engineering and remember that high-performance turbofans are as much art as science. There is no shortcut to massive experience and trial and error.

Even China only started putting the WS-15 engine for the J-20 into mass production last year and that was over a decade after it put the WS-10B(F-110 class) into mass production on the J-11B back in 2009.

Russia has now fallen behind the Chinese as they do not have their own 35,000lb thrust-class engine for Su-57 in production yet. They have so much legacy Soviet experience but are really struggling at developing such a high thrust fighter engine.

Turkey does not even have a domestic turbofan fighter engine developed yet of any generation and to think they can develop something like this by the 2030s is far too wishful thinking I am sorry to say.

this is not argument but fallacies, come with a reasonable argument we can talk.

 

[MMM-E]

The engine is obviously definitely harder, but The project is already successful with GE110 engines. People forget that the Rafale flew with GE404 engine initially, and that the Saab Gripen flew with GE404 engine, yet no one uses the engine talking point against them.

Even Chinese J-20 flew with Russian AL-31 initially

prototypes and early production batches were powered by Russian AL-31 turbofan Engine for years

 

[hyperman]

Much as I want Turkey to succeed, I think there is next to no chance that Turkey will have a 35,000lb engine ready even in the 2030s.

Turkey cannot defy the accepted norms of engineering and remember that high-performance turbofans are as much art as science. There is no shortcut to massive experience and trial and error.

Even China only started putting the WS-15 engine for the J-20 into mass production last year and that was over a decade after it put the WS-10B(F-110 class) into mass production on the J-11B back in 2009.

Russia has now fallen behind the Chinese as they do not have their own 35,000lb thrust-class engine for Su-57 in production yet. They have so much legacy Soviet experience but are really struggling at developing such a high thrust fighter engine.

Turkey does not even have a domestic turbofan fighter engine developed yet of any generation and to think they can develop something like this by the 2030s is far too wishful thinking I am sorry to say.

When you say no chance even in the 2030s, are you suggesting that even by 2039 its an impossibility?

I guess we will see in 2030. Everyone mentions China, no one mentions Japan, many people don't even know that Japan actually has an engine in the same class. Japan built the XF9 not too long after the XF5, Turkey is at the XF5 stage with the TF6000 in its development path.

 

[hyperman]

Arkadaşlar daha önce bu konuda hiç yazı görmedim MMU KAAN savaş uçağı için bir makineli top üretiilecek mi ? Ben bir proje yada uçak üzerinde bir alan ayrıldığını göremedim.Sizce makeni topu olmayan bir uçakmı göreceğiz?

No cannon, I think Turkey is going the J-20 route.

 

[Nilgiri]

this is not argument but fallacies, come with a reasonable argument we can talk.

Don't waste your time with people who don't know the basics.

You know the breadth and depth I have chatted with you Turks on this matter to begin with.

Others look at wiki and dont have the basic slightest idea on the actual subject w.r.t what an aircraft weight, T/W and role/cost of afterburner is to begin with (dependent on the core).

Then they even look at the wiki wrong. Frustrating if you try to hand hold them.

 

[UKBengali]

When you say no chance even in the 2030s, are you suggesting that even by 2039 its an impossibility?

I guess we will see in 2030. Everyone mentions China, no one mentions Japan, many people don't even know that Japan actually has an engine in the same class. Japan built the XF9 not too long after the XF5, Turkey is at the XF5 stage with the TF6000 in its development path.

I believe that Turkey can produce a F110 class turbofan engine in the 2030s, maybe something with 140kN of thrust and so an "in between" 4th and 5th generation engine. More than likely a 35,000lb class engine will need to wait till the 1940s. The engireening is extremely complex and Turkey lacks any real prior experience in producing and using a single fighter turbofan engine so far.

Again, while I want Turkey to produce this fighter as intended and ready for export in the early 2030s, both for itself and giving the Muslim world access to a cutting-edge war machine, realism dictates it will take a lot longer than planned.

 

[MMM-E]

We work hard and We will succeed

Engine won't take Turkiye even 8 years. I know how they work.
I have never seen such sacrifice.. Turkish Engineers dont go home to see their families for days

And they are very smart. Not just smart on paper. Super creative people, pretty amazing problem solvers

Only 6 years 2018-2024
and everyone (who calls us delusional ) has seen the first flight of the KAAN Fighter Jet

KAAN was developed within 5-6 years! It flew ahead of 2026 planned schedule.
Turks develop things with rapid speed as they work day and night.


KAAN will be 100% indigenous
Now only Engine and Ejection Seat from abroad

--TAI develops ejection seat instead of British Martin-Baker
--TR-MOTOR develops turbofan Engine instead of American GE

 

[UKBengali]

Don't waste your time with people who don't know the basics.

You know the breadth and depth I have chatted with you Turks on this matter to begin with.

Others look at wiki and dont have the basic slightest idea on the actual subject w.r.t what an aircraft weight, T/W and role/cost of afterburner is to begin with (dependent on the core).

Then they even look at the wiki wrong. Frustrating if you try to hand

Well, well, well...

Congrats on the "promotion" but maybe you need to let go of past butt-hurts and rise to your new status?

While I am of course a massive supporter of the Turkish defence industry, I do not have that inbuilt Turkish national that would cloud my judgement and think Turkey could get to within 10-20 years of US/Chinese fighter engine tech by the 2030s.

Of course I would love to see BAF flying a few squadrons of KAANs in the 2030s, and even with an interim 4+ generation engine with circa 140kN Engine, it would still be a good fighter aircraft for BD, when flying alongside more squadrons of J-31.