Türkiye vs Israel - tensions, conflicts and rivalry | Latest News and Updates

Foinikas said:
Egyptians never admit they lost 1973,I've discussed with them many times and never admit it. As for the war of attrition,what exactly did you win? No border change,nothing.
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Why should we admit something never happened?

But we can admit something else, we kicked out hundreds of thousands of greeks outta Egypt and we took all their belongings.
 
Desert said:
Why should we admit something never happened?

But we can admit something else, we kicked out hundreds of thousands of greeks outta Egypt and we took all their belongings.
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And you're very proud to have erased the hellenic community from Egypt,huh.
 
mythbuster said:
You can request Turks to reintroduce janissaries.
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Fun fact: there are no recorded Greeks serving as Janissaries. None. And if any ever did slip in during the very earliest period, it would’ve been from newly conquered Balkan regions — not from established Greek communities. The entire devşirme system was designed specifically to avoid recruiting from Anatolian Turkish beys, lords, and elites, because the sultan didn’t fully trust the entrenched Turkic nobility at the time. That’s why the system focused on newly conquered Christian populations in the Balkans, not long‑standing communities in Anatolia or Egypt.

The devşirme wasn’t some “random lottery” like people try to portray for modern propaganda. In reality, a large portion of those taken were from the elite families of newly conquered Balkan regions, because those families actively bribed devşirme scouts to select their sons. Being chosen meant access to the palace school, elite military training, high administrative positions, and a direct path into the Ottoman ruling class. It was considered a privilege, not a punishment. So the idea that it was purely random or indiscriminately targeting Greeks is historically false — the system overwhelmingly drew from Balkan elites who wanted their children in the Janissary corps, while long‑established Greek communities were barely touched.

Sokollu Mehmed Pasha (Sokolović family — Serbian nobility)​

  • Born into a Serbian Orthodox noble family
  • His family actively cooperated with Ottoman authorities
  • Became Grand Vizier under three sultans
  • His relatives remained local elites in Bosnia and Serbia

Lala Mustafa Pasha (Bosnian aristocratic family)​

  • Came from a prominent Bosnian family
  • Rose to become Grand Vizier and commander in Cyprus
  • His family maintained status under Ottoman rule

Pargalı Ibrahim Pasha (Greek aristocratic household in Parga)​

  • Born into a wealthy Greek family
  • His entry into Ottoman service was not random
  • Became Grand Vizier and closest advisor to Suleiman
  • His family had connections and resources
(Note: Ibrahim Pasha was not a Janissary — he is an example of elite devşirme recruitment from Greek-speaking regions.)
 
Anatolia said:
Fun fact: there are no recorded Greeks serving as Janissaries. None. And if any ever did slip in during the very earliest period, it would’ve been from newly conquered Balkan regions — not from established Greek communities. The entire devşirme system was designed specifically to avoid recruiting from Anatolian Turkish beys, lords, and elites, because the sultan didn’t fully trust the entrenched Turkic nobility at the time. That’s why the system focused on newly conquered Christian populations in the Balkans, not long‑standing communities in Anatolia or Egypt.
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PDF Turks rewriting history since 2010


lolpak4.jpg
 
Anatolia said:
Fun fact: there are no recorded Greeks serving as Janissaries. None. And if any ever did slip in during the very earliest period, it would’ve been from newly conquered Balkan regions — not from established Greek communities. The entire devşirme system was designed specifically to avoid recruiting from Anatolian Turkish beys, lords, and elites, because the sultan didn’t fully trust the entrenched Turkic nobility at the time. That’s why the system focused on newly conquered Christian populations in the Balkans, not long‑standing communities in Anatolia or Egypt.

The devşirme wasn’t some “random lottery” like people try to portray for modern propaganda. In reality, a large portion of those taken were from the elite families of newly conquered Balkan regions, because those families actively bribed devşirme scouts to select their sons. Being chosen meant access to the palace school, elite military training, high administrative positions, and a direct path into the Ottoman ruling class. It was considered a privilege, not a punishment. So the idea that it was purely random or indiscriminately targeting Greeks is historically false — the system overwhelmingly drew from Balkan elites who wanted their children in the Janissary corps, while long‑established Greek communities were barely touched.

Sokollu Mehmed Pasha (Sokolović family — Serbian nobility)​

  • Born into a Serbian Orthodox noble family
  • His family actively cooperated with Ottoman authorities
  • Became Grand Vizier under three sultans
  • His relatives remained local elites in Bosnia and Serbia

Lala Mustafa Pasha (Bosnian aristocratic family)​

  • Came from a prominent Bosnian family
  • Rose to become Grand Vizier and commander in Cyprus
  • His family maintained status under Ottoman rule

Pargalı Ibrahim Pasha (Greek aristocratic household in Parga)​

  • Born into a wealthy Greek family
  • His entry into Ottoman service was not random
  • Became Grand Vizier and closest advisor to Suleiman
  • His family had connections and resources
(Note: Ibrahim Pasha was not a Janissary — he is an example of elite devşirme recruitment from Greek-speaking regions.)
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Isn't present day Greece part of the Balkans
 
mythbuster said:
Absolutely no problem , I consider ancient greeks a gift to humanity...get it down bro.
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Then why are you so antagonistic two days now? Ever since I started posting on the forum again after 4-5 months,you've been antagonistic and sarcastic. I don't understand why,maybe it's your love for Turkey as a Pakistani.
 
mythbuster said:
Isn't present day Greece part of the Balkans
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Yes, present‑day Greece is geographically part of the Balkans ... but that has nothing to do with the Janissary system at the time it was created. You’re mixing modern borders with 14th–15th century Ottoman administrative reality. When the Janissaries were first established under Murad I (late 1300s), the devşirme system was not applied evenly across all Balkan territories. It was overwhelmingly concentrated in newly conquered regions like Serbia, Bosnia, Albania, and parts of Bulgaria, because those areas had just fallen under Ottoman control and the sultan wanted boys who had no entrenched local networks and no ties to old elites.

This is why the earliest and strongest Janissary intake came from places like:

  • Serbia (Sokolović family → Sokollu Mehmed Pasha)
  • Bosnia (Lala Mustafa Pasha, many palace-school recruits)
  • Albania (Sinan Pasha, Kara Davud Pasha)
These were newly subdued territories where the Ottoman state could reshape society without resistance. And as I said earlier, many of these boys came from elite families who bribed devşirme officials, because entering the Janissary corps or Enderun meant power, wealth, and protection.

Meanwhile, Greek communities — especially those in Anatolia, the Aegean, and long‑established Byzantine regions — were not targeted for devşirme in the same way. They already had defined administrative roles under the empire:

  • Phanariot Greeks in diplomacy
  • Greek Orthodox clergy in the millet system
  • Greek merchants in tax and trade networks
  • Local Greek notables integrated into provincial administration
The Ottomans didn’t want to disrupt these structures by pulling their sons into the Janissaries. The sultan also didn’t trust the old Anatolian Turkish beys or established Greek elites enough to give them access to the palace school. So the devşirme focused on newly conquered Balkan territories, not long-standing Greek populations.

So yes — Greece is part of the Balkans geographically, but historically, Greeks were rarely taken as Janissaries because the system was designed around political strategy, not modern maps.

And there’s another practical reason the Ottomans didn’t just “grab random boys” from every village: the empire needed its skilled workers to stay where they were. Taking the baker’s son meant the next generation had no baker. Taking the blacksmith’s son meant no blacksmith. Taking the merchant’s son meant no merchant. The devşirme system was designed to avoid damaging the economic backbone of the empire. That’s why recruitment leaned heavily toward elite or semi‑elite families in newly conquered Balkan regions — households that could afford to lose a son without collapsing their local economy. These families often wanted their sons taken because it meant access to the palace school, high military rank, and political protection. So the idea that devşirme was a random sweep of poor Greek villagers is simply not true; it was a selective system shaped by long‑term economic planning and political strategy.
 
Anatolia said:
Am I wrong though?
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Totally. Greeks were among the basic Christian populations taken by the devsirme. Where do you think the Ottomans got children from in the early years in Asia Minor and the Balkans? Just Armenians and Georgians?
 
Anatolia said:
Meanwhile, Greek communities — especially those in Anatolia, the Aegean, and long‑established Byzantine regions — were not targeted for devşirme in the same way.
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*sigh*

Dude,come on. It's even survived in folk songs here
 
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