USA: The Decaying Empire

[FuturePAF]

They also require huge investment in transport and other infrastructure.

Australia has plenty of land, obviously, and big incentives for new migrants to go to rural areas but most just want to stay in Sydney and Melbourne metro areas.

Can you blame the new immigrants? Why would they want to go to a rural area where there maybe jobs not none of the amenities they would hope to be able to enjoy.



Even many young Americans are leaving Rural America.

 

[Developereo]

You're cherry picking at this point. That doesn’t change the fact that this amount of Europeans on average are legally immigrating to the US every year:

How am I cherry picking?
Did you even read my original post?

I never denied that some Europeans migrate to the US; I wrote that they are not in their millions like one ones from poorer parts of the world.

 

[Developereo]

Population density creates its own economic opportunities too despite the limitations that you mention.

That is why they stay in the major metro areas: jobs and proximity to expat communities of their background.

Can you blame the new immigrants. Why would they want to go to a rural area where there maybe jobs not none of the amenities they would hope to be able to enjoy.

Yes, what I wrote just above.

 

[FuturePAF]

That is why they stay in the major metro areas: jobs and proximity to expat communities of their background.



Yes, what I wrote just above.

The issue is that when no one wanted to live in the major cities, in the 70s-90s, and love to suburbs, the immigrants that came and set down roots have their homes. As housing went up and up, newer immigrants couldn’t afford to buy into the same markets for similar percentages of their incomes.

The immigrants also love the hustle and bustle of cities and are depressed by the quiet of suburban life. They want to live in communities where they can walk to a restaurant serving the same food, or a local park to mingle in.

This is the world the earlier immigrants came to and worked their way up. This is Harlem, but a lot of New York was like to some degree 30-40 years ago.

 

[Developereo]

The issue is that when no one wanted to live in the major cities, in the 70s-90s, and love to suburbs, the immigrants that came and set down roots have their homes. As housing went up and up, newer immigrants couldn’t afford to buy into the same markets for similar percentages of their incomes.

The immigrants also love the hustle and bustle of cities and are depressed by the quiet of suburban life. They want to live in communities where they can walk to a restaurant serving the same food, or a local park to mingle in.

Well, when I say Sydney and Melbourne metro area, that includes the outlying suburbs up to 50-60km radius. Only singles and young couples like to live in the city proper; families usually prefer the suburbs.

House prices are approaching a million even for outlying suburbs.

 

[FuturePAF]

Well, when I say Sydney and Melbourne metro area, that includes the outlying suburbs up to 50-60km radius. Only singles and young couples like to live in the city proper; families usually prefer the suburbs.

House prices are approaching a million even for outlying suburbs.

Depends on the demographics of your immigrants. In Australia, they are probably Asians, particularly Chinese if I’m not mistaken. They have lived in apartment buildings back in China and probably want to live in bigger houses and out in the suburbs, not unlike Eastern Europeans a generation ago.

In New York, we are getting mostly Latinos and West Africans. They are about where we are in development and lifestyle in Pakistan and are seeking to live near each other. If that means apartments, so be it.

A lot comes down to the socioeconomic position the immigrants are. I lived near a young banker from Lahore working for IBM. He didn’t want / or desire to live in the Ethnoburb of Desis in Brooklyn or Queens. So, class and lifestyle was more determinant than immigration status, with regards to living arrangement.

 

[Developereo]

Depends on the demographics of your immigrants. In Australia, they are probably Asians, particularly Chinese if I’m not mistaken.

Used to be Chinese last century. Last couple of decades the largest group has been Indians. The Liberal government, which, in Australia, means right wing, made a concerted effort to boost Indian migration tenfold to balance out the Chinese already here.

Chinese students usually buy apartments in the city, but Indian and Chinese families both prefer houses in the suburbs.

 

[FuturePAF]

Used to be Chinese last century. Last couple of decades the largest group has been Indians. Chinese students usually buy apartments in the city, but Indian and Chinese families both prefer houses in the suburbs.

Both groups are probably middle class. Our immigrants here in New York come with basically nothing, and some are sleeping on the streets because the shelters are not safe.

Also last week a person, possible a Chinese person, hung himself during the morning commute (as reported on the Citizen App) at the 69th street station on the 7 line (that runs from Flushing (Chinatown in Queens) to Manhattan (midtown New York City). Times are tough in New York for many. It took the cops a while to cut him down and take away his body. Trains were delays for 90 minutes.

But that is an extreme case. what life is like for middle class New Yorkers is shown in the following video:

 

[Oscar]

Thank you for the laugh.

But seriously, the economy, and all the consequences that are evident, some of which you mention, rely on the real strengths that most people do not appreciate enough IMO.

Thpse are the rule of law, work ethic and creativity with freedom of thought. Each of these combine together with the rich and ever changing diversity and mobility of the population to create a fertile milieu. Most outsiders see the turbulence and worry, but I see the constant churning that prevents sediments and ensures vitality.

After all, the richest waters in the ocean are never the calm clear tropic paradises that people dream of for vacations, but the storm tossed ever churning seas to the north and south.



Your complaints are being heard by management, I can assure you, and will produce the results that you desire relatively soon. Definitely.

In the meantime, please see my response on topic above.

And that’s the deal - we criticize more often than not yet are met with little consequences in our system because it’s designed as a democracy. I have written letters to congressmen on policy and gotten responses. We talk to potholes , homelessness and call the mayor an idiot without repercussions - attend town halls and get into debates. The problem here is that hyperbolic statements are absolutely ridiculous on what decay or decline is and frankly lead to any serious discussion on the subject considered spurious at best and biased at worst.

 

[VCheng]

And that’s the deal - we criticize more often than not yet are met with little consequences in our system because it’s designed as a democracy. I have written letters to congressmen on policy and gotten responses. We talk to potholes , homelessness and call the mayor an idiot without repercussions - attend town halls and get into debates. The problem here is that hyperbolic statements are absolutely ridiculous on what decay or decline is and frankly lead to any serious discussion on the subject considered spurious at best and biased at worst.

And yet it is wise to create a "Speaker's Corner" a la Hyde Park in the forum, hence this thread, for peoples to vent their vitriol in a safe and nourishing environment.

 

[Oscar]

And yet it is wise to create a "Speaker's Corner" a la Hyde Park in the forum, hence this thread, for peoples to vent their vitriol in a safe and nourishing environment.

True, we have em here .. why not one for those that those don’t even live here and reach idiotic conclusions.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

US social mobility is a myth, especially in the case of immigrants:

Opinion | The American dream is just that — a figment of our collective imagination

Politicians promote the idea that hard work can carry you anywhere. But the American dream is just that — a figment of our collective imagination.

www.nbcnews.com

Well how do you explain that thread about how Indians are now supposedly the #1 top income earning demographic in the US? That isn't from being taxi drivers and Quiki-Mart clerks...

As for people who are not immigrants...

Social mobility is all about how hard you try. I grew up in the blue collar streets of Boston surrounded by misfit juvenile delinquents in a year 1880 house in a neighborhood no upwardly mobile family wanted to live in. Now I'm in a new house worth well over $1M (paid off) in a sought after white-collar suburb.

My father could only afford used cars all his life...I drive a Tesla (and I paid cash for it).

The people who are the loudest whiners probably grew up in a sheltered comfortable nice suburb (like my kids) and never knew what a bad life could be (I had a paper-route when i was a kid meanwhile my kids have never worked a day)...so they never felt any urgency to try and get themselves out of anything. So now after leaving home and going on their own they realize life isn't magically handing you a silver spoon like their dad did and they somehow think upward mobility is a myth.

 

[925boy]

My wife is from Central Asia, former Soviet Union republic. She came to this country knowing little English, and working small jobs. She learned English, put herself through school, earns over $100K a year. She’s a naturalized US citizen and couldn’t be happier. She’s living her American dream and we just purchased a new home last year.

You really don’t know what the f**k you’re talking about.

so your awesome wife's story = average American immigrant's story/path in US?
no bro!

 

[FuturePAF]

Well how do you explain that thread about how Indians are now supposedly the #1 top income earning demographic in the US? That isn't from being taxi drivers and Quiki-Mart clerks...

As for people who are not immigrants...

Social mobility is all about how hard you try. I grew up in the blue collar streets of Boston surrounded by misfit juvenile delinquents in a year 1880 house in a neighborhood no upwardly mobile family wanted to live in. Now I'm in a new house worth well over $1M (paid off) in a sought after white-collar suburb.

My father could only afford used cars all his life...I drive a Tesla (and I paid cash for it).

The people who are the loudest whiners probably grew up in a sheltered comfortable nice suburb (like my kids) and never knew what a bad life could be (I had a paper-route when i was a kid meanwhile my kids have never worked a day)...so they never felt any urgency to try and get themselves out of anything. So now after leaving home and going on their own they realize life isn't magically handing you a silver spoon like their dad did and they somehow think upward mobility is a myth.

You from Southie? You must be Wicked Smaht. Didn’t know you were Matt Damon?



P.S. can you believe it’s been 30 years since this movie came out.

 

[Developereo]

probably grew up in a sheltered comfortable nice suburb (like my kids) and never knew what a bad life could be

I always found it intriguing that Europe does not have the level of entrepreneurism that the US does. One would have thought that a strong social services safety net, common in Western Europe, would be more conducive to risk taking but that doesn't seem to be the case.

In any case, the US remains the destination of choice for people with entrepreneurial spirit, not least because of the huge local market and the abundance of investment capital.