Yarmook-Class Corvette/OPV | Updates & Discussion

[cord]

I should have been a little more political at least then Navanti would have been purchased if it had to be rather than milgem and it wouldn't be labelled as religious purchase.

 

[Awwad]

Batch 2 has literally 90% of the things youve posted in this graphic repeatedly- while costing likely half of the Ada class. Which is why PN wants 8 total between batch 2 and 1. So 4 more B2.

The Batch 2 is likely a ship capable of dealing with the BrahMos threat better than the 054A. The same systems onboard will be found on Babur, only until Jinnah will there not be a massive difference.

True.

@LegionnairE

There are multiple reasons why Pakistan went to Damen:

i) PN Requirements

PN isn't looking for more ASW platforms, it's looking for affordable platform with modern air-defense / VLS & Anti-ship missiles. Ada has only point defense. Ada's modified version with VLS will become another Babur which is costly and PN already ordered it and will have 4 of those ships.

ii) Cost

It looks like that after weapon / sensors implementation the Damens will still be more affordable than Ada.

iii) Delivery timeline

PN is set to receive these 2 batch-II damen ships later this year or early next year. Which would never be possible if given to Turkey. As, Turkey is still working on the Baburs, So new contract to Damen has made it possible for parallel construction and faster timelines for PN.

 

[LegionnairE]

Batch 2 has literally 90% of the things youve posted in this graphic repeatedly-

Yes because Batch 2 is literally %50 Turkish. Stuff borrowed from Ada class and İ class.

Still, put these two ships 40 miles from each other, Ada class fires 4 harpoons and it's %100 kill
Yarmook launches 2 C802s both shot down by RAM and nothing happens to the Ada class.

Put them farther apart and Ada class will spot the Yarmook first due to superior sensors.

 

[LegionnairE]

True.

@LegionnairE

There are multiple reasons why Pakistan went to Damen:

i) PN Requirements

PN isn't looking for more ASW platforms, it's looking for affordable platform with modern air-defense / VLS & Anti-ship missiles. Ada has only point defense. Ada's modified version with VLS will become another Babur which is costly and PN already ordered it and will have 4 of those ships.

ii) Cost

It looks like that after weapon / sensors implementation the Damens will still be more affordable than Ada.

iii) Delivery timeline

PN is set to receive these 2 batch-II damen ships later this year or early next year. Which would never be possible if given to Turkey. As, Turkey is still working on the Baburs, So new contract to Damen has made it possible for parallel construction and faster timelines for PN.

nowadays we have the Hisar class based on the original Ada class that's pretty modular and unwanted modules can easily be removed and replaced to fit any requirement.

However in my opinion Ada class is still the better option. having the GENESIS/ADVENT CMS gives an incredible network based warfare capability. And having all the advanced sensors on board that can transmit data to any ship in the fleet greatly multiplies the capabilities of the ship. You could fire an SM-1 or Hisar-D RF missile from another ship of the fleet and hit a target designated by Ada class' Smart-S Mk. 2 radar.

Calling Ada class "bad design" and then borrowing that radar is a bit funny.

 

[cord]

nowadays we have the Hisar class based on the original Ada class that's pretty modular and unwanted modules can easily be removed and replaced to fit any requirement.

However in my opinion Ada class is still the better option. having the GENESIS/ADVENT CMS gives an incredible network based warfare capability. And having all the advanced sensors on board that can transmit data to any ship in the fleet greatly multiplies the capabilities of the ship. You could fire an SM-1 or Hisar-D RF missile from another ship of the fleet and hit a target designated by Ada class' Smart-S Mk. 2 radar.

Calling Ada class "bad design" and then borrowing that radar is a bit funny.

I think Ada class is a bad design it only has a RAM at the back and no VLS.

But what you are talking about is network centric warfare basically datalinks and software to understand it and that is all NATO countries lately.

 

[arslank01]

Yes because Batch 2 is literally %50 Turkish. Stuff borrowed from Ada class and İ class.

such as?

Id love to see the info you have on it because other than the RWS and CIWS (possibly) nothing else is confirmed to be Turkish lol

 

[arslank01]

Yarmook launches 2 C802s both shot down by RAM and nothing happens to the Ada class.

Yarmook receives P282.

 

[arslank01]

Ada class fires 4 harpoons and it's %100 kill

Yes because CAMM-ER, a system the PN extensively evaluated against hypersonic threats would crumble at the sight of vintage harpoons lol

 

[Raiden]

Thaon De Revel class wants a word-

Thaon di Revel-class offshore patrol vessel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ayyyy, how could I forgotten the Thaon.

Ps: there's a chance that the 2 newest PPA being built right now for Marina Militaire could go instead to us.

 

[MS Sandhu]

However in my opinion Ada class is still the better option

Try to understand The role for which these OPVs are bought
Ada is too expensive for that role.

 

[Awwad]

Still, put these two ships 40 miles from each other, Ada class fires 4 harpoons and it's %100 kill
Yarmook launches 2 C802s both shot down by RAM and nothing happens to the Ada class.

Absolutely wrong. First, Ada has only Point defense 10 km range (RAM) and no long / medium range air defense at all. Super sonic missile attack (like Yarmook's P-282 or CM302) will likely make it vulnerable.

Secondly, Pakistan could have received RAM if it was a turkish weapon system, but its an American system. American missiles export to Pakistan is unlikely in current geopolitics. There's a reason we didn't see RAM in Babur class.

On the other hand, Yarmook has the very cutting edge CAMM-ER medium range missile system. You know CAMM is the backbone air defense of new UK navy. They are replacing their Aster-15 with CAMM. CAMM-ER is a missile capable to deal with supersonic attacks, the obsolete Harpoons are no threat to Yarmook. Any hypothetical confrontation of Ada Vs Yarmook will be done at more than 200 km range and Ada won't be able to even come close. Not to say Ada is bad or inferior, but its a different role ship. Its majorly is a very good ASW platform and its long range air-defense will be carried out by other ships in the fleet.

Pakistan just don't want to stack up further ASW ships, Pakistan is just looking for the right platform according to threats it face and in its limited budget.

nowadays we have the Hisar class based on the original Ada class that's pretty modular and unwanted modules can easily be removed and replaced to fit any requirement.

However in my opinion Ada class is still the better option. having the GENESIS/ADVENT CMS gives an incredible network based warfare capability. And having all the advanced sensors on board that can transmit data to any ship in the fleet greatly multiplies the capabilities of the ship. You could fire an SM-1 or Hisar-D RF missile from another ship of the fleet and hit a target designated by Ada class' Smart-S Mk. 2 radar.

Calling Ada class "bad design" and then borrowing that radar is a bit funny.

Agreed. However, I never said that Ada is a bad design. Its just the cost, requirements & timelines weren't right for acquisition of ada. If indian navy only had harpoons and no Brahmos / lesser number of warships / more number of submarines than PN would have gone for more ASW platforms like Ada. But that's not the case, PN has a specific requirement to go for medium range advance air defense systems in its hulls. Can't solely rely on point-defense. Again as you said, Ada could have modified to get that refit of VLS but that would have taken its cost to Babur's level. Hence Yarmook is a right choice.

 

[LegionnairE]

Yes because CAMM-ER, a system the PN extensively evaluated against hypersonic threats would crumble at the sight of vintage harpoons lol

You don't know what you're talking about. A hypersonic missile can never skim the sea like Harpoon does and you can never engage Harpoon at CAMM-ER ranges. Why do you think all NATO countries still use Harpoon? You think we're all idiots? I suggest you shut up before you embarrass yourself more.

Try to understand The role for which these OPVs are bought
Ada is too expensive for that role.

Turkish Hisar class OPVs are built to be armed to the level of Ada class corvette depending on requirements. They are modular. That's why they look so similiar.

 

[LegionnairE]

Absolutely wrong. First, Ada has only Point defense 10 km range (RAM) and no long / medium range air defense at all. Super sonic missile attack (like Yarmook's P-282 or CM302) will likely make it vulnerable.

The speed of the missile doesn't matter, how many seconds of reaction time you get matters. At most ranges supersonic anti-ship missiles are actually inferior to subsonic ones. Because they fly higher and give more time to react. And RAM is pretty fucking good at intercepting these threats. That's why you see them on American aircraft carriers.

And that's why Atmaca is such a dangerous weapon, not because it's faster, but because it flies even lower than Harpoon

Secondly, Pakistan could have received RAM if it was a turkish weapon system, but its an American system. American missiles export to Pakistan is unlikely in current geopolitics. There's a reason we didn't see RAM in Babur class.

Then how did PN get the Phalanx?

 

[Awwad]

Then how did PN get the Phalanx?

Phalanx isn't a big deal, Pakistan received those many decades ago. Pakistan even received weapons such as AMRAAMs, F-16 block 52s in the past. But those were the times when Pakistan was so-called ally either in Afghan jihad against Soviets OR war on terror. Now those times are gone. Secondly, Pakistan got alternate options, so it isn't actively pursuing / lobbying for US weapons anyways.

BTW, Pakistan can always get the RAM installed right at Yarmooks (if ever USA is willing to sell) OR otherwise any other PDMS. So it will have two air-defense layers. One at long / medium range with CAMM-ER, other at short 10km range.

 

[Musings]

Stop the insults