Yarmook-Class Corvette/OPV | Updates & Discussion

[Khanasifm]

These opv bring true multi role / Swiss Army knife capability for both peace time and conflict / war role

Peacetime
1. Pollution control
2 hospital
3 rescue
4 anti piracy
Etc

War time
1 asw
2 anti sub
3 hospital ship
4 anti air

The role can be adjusted based on standard container add on
The only thing is not sure why Ssm are very light load for almost all pn 054a just 4, yarmook just 4 , babar clas just 6
Only Jinnah class has 8 perhaps the Ssm and very heavy compared to western which are lighter and decks can only take so much
Yj -12 or cm-301 is 2500 kg or lbs per missile vs western half the weight
P282 may be more

 

[MS Sandhu]

At most ranges supersonic anti-ship missiles are actually inferior to subsonic ones.

Not really.
Supersonics also travel quite low (15-30m) at terminal stage,and as a bonus,at 2-3mach.

See the video and you will understand.

 

[LegionnairE]

Not really.
Supersonics also travel quite low (15-30m) at terminal stage,and as a bonus,at 2-3mach.

See the video and you will understand.

Pretty impressive, still, higher than a missile like Atmaca and plenty of time to intercept especially for a missile like RAM. Big problem for Phalanx though.

Another thing to consider is that subsonic missiles are more maneuverable and can be programmed to make evasive maneuvers before impact. Making them difficult to hit even for RAM. Although RAM is agile as ****


Strength of Gökdeniz lies in there, it's effective in a wider range.

 

[m52k85]

And RAM is pretty fucking good at intercepting these threats. That's why you see them on American aircraft carriers.

And that's why Atmaca is such a dangerous weapon, not because it's faster, but because it flies even lower than Harpoon

The US navy responded to the Chinese fielding YJ-12, how? Did they put a RAM module on every surface ship? or did they respond by ensuring other procedures?

You earlier said response time in seconds is the most appropriate measure, I agree, but it also depends on distance at which threat is spotted. Having a AEW increases available response time by greatly increasing distance over horizon at which target missile can be engaged.

Sub-sonic sea skimming (1970s - Exocet) <Super-sonic sea skimming (1980s vis Kh-31) < Sub-sonic seas skimming manoeuvring < Super-sonic sea skimming manoeuvring (2000s P-800 and Brahmos).

Hypersonic missiles on the other hand fly higher, not super-sonic ones. Technology to make super-sonic sea skimming missiles is not new. Technology to make hyper-sonic missiles sea skimming does not exist, even the underlying physics of it is as yet undiscovered. The P-282 is likely a hypersonic ash ballistic missile. The RAM was never intended to take on such a threat, the US navy uses SM-6 / SM-3 for those threats.

As far as a Ada coming up against a Yarmook Batch-2 one-on-one is concerned, the only possible winner could be the Ada. The Yarmook alone will not be able to launch its P-282 without the external targeting info it was designed to receive, while any Harpoons sent its way by the Ada will be dealt with by the CAMMs. That's not to say no harpoon has any chance of getting through, and that will be the win condition for Ada.

However, if the Yarmook and Ada are both supported by their AEW helicopter, and both know they are up against only each other, then the Yarmook's AEW will fly with less restrictions compared to the Ada's, due a superior anti-air bubble of Yarmook. Yarmook will consequently sea, track and target first, and beyond the minimum range of its ballistic missile, the P-282 will fly and Ada will have no chance of an intercept.

p.s. I should add, the Ada will be able to see the P-282 from a 10s if not 100s of miles away with its SMART-S radar, it just wont have an appropriate interceptor.

 

[Awwad]

Well whole discussion has gone nuts ..

Its basically come to RAM versus CAMM-ER. There's no comparison of two different category systems, one is close in weapon (point defense) Other is medium/long range air defense. You have to compare PDMS with PDMS. Compare Aster15 with CAMM-ER, cannot compare long range with short range systems.

Anways, Yarmook can always be fitted with a PDMS (if one is available to PN) . Then yarmook will have 2 layers of defense. Still it has 2 layers of defense with CAMM-ER & CIWS but PDMS replacing CIWS will be a bonus.

So, PN should have bought Ada because it has RAM does not make sense at all. PN can get the RAM installed over Yarmook too. The point is availability & affordability of systems to PN.

End of story.

 

[LegionnairE]

Anways, Yarmook can always be fitted with a PDMS (if one is available to PN) .

Ada class can be fitted with CAMM-ER, hence Babur class. You get a much more capable, much more powerful ship.

These ships are much more modular, much more flexible, can be made as cheap as Hisar class OPV too. You get GENESIS/ADVENT combat management system, an electronic warfare suite and many more sensors.

PN should have bought Ada because it has RAM does not make sense at all.-

Yes, that's why nobody said it.

 

[LegionnairE]

US navy uses SM-6 / SM-3 for those threats.

SM-3 is a proven anti ballistic missile. I'm not so confident about CAMM-ER, I wouldn't put them in the same category lol.

 

[MS Sandhu]

Pretty impressive, still, higher than a missile like Atmaca and plenty of time to intercept especially for a missile like RAM.

So anti ship capability is just all about sea skimming?
A small & unexpected Manuever at a Supersonic Speed can f#ck up all the Defences.
Unlike Ballistic Missiles, Supersonic Cruise Missiles remain powdered up throughout their flight so they can expend some energy to make a Maneuver.

 

[MS Sandhu]

SM-3 is a proven anti ballistic missile. I'm not so confident about CAMM-ER, I wouldn't put them in the same category lol.

Though it's not in same category,If Barak-8 can shot down ballistic missiles like Iskander,so can CAMM-ER at least tactical ones.

 

[LegionnairE]

So anti ship capability is just all about sea skimming?
A small & unexpected Manuever at a Supersonic Speed can f#ck up all the Defences.
Unlike Ballistic Missiles, Supersonic Cruise Missiles remain powdered up throughout their flight so they can expend some energy to make a Maneuver.

With those tiny fins?

Bold claims, if you have a video of P-282 making such a maneuver feel free to share.

Though it's not in same category,If Barak-8 can shot down ballistic missiles like Iskander,so can CAMM-ER at least tactical ones.

at what ranges? with what probability of kill?


I say range(s) because what matters is the minimum range here. You won't detect a sea skimming missile like Harpoon or Atmaca at maximum range.



On paper Moskva had excellent radars and CIWS' but it got defeated by the "vintage" subsonic neptune lol

 

[MS Sandhu]

Bold claims, if you have a video of P-282 making such a maneuver feel free to share.

Let me share with you the flight path of Brahmose Supersonic Cruise Missile:


This is the real time radar data of Brahmose.These things are capable enough to take turns.

 

[LegionnairE]

Let me share with you the flight path of Brahmose Supersonic Cruise Missile:

View attachment 26282
This is the real time radar data of Brahmose.These things are capable enough to take turns.

That "sharp" turn is easily 20 kilometers wide lol.

You just proved what I was saying all along.

 

[MS Sandhu]

That "sharp" turn is easily 20 kilometers wide lol.

You just proved what I was saying all along.

It only takes some 20 seconds to cover up this turn.
Plus These Supersonic Cruise Missiles can literally dive down at their terminal stage upto some 15m to hit their target.
So these are pretty good missiles to have in arsenal.
If intercepting Supersonics with just RAM like point defence Systems was so easy PN would have never bought CAMM-ER like defence Systems
Or IN would never have built the bulk of their Anti Ship arsenal around Brahmose lol

 

[Awwad]

The speed of the missile doesn't matter, how many seconds of reaction time you get matters. At most ranges supersonic anti-ship missiles are actually inferior to subsonic ones. Because they fly higher and give more time to react. And RAM is pretty fucking good at intercepting these threats. That's why you see them on American aircraft carriers.

Speed makes hell of a difference. Many modern super-sonic antiship missiles (like CM-302) accelerates tremendously at terminal phase. Which is easier to intercept a missile that is cruising at a constant speed OR a missile that's accelerating tremendously before entering the range of close-in weapon systems ? At this range both missiles are 100% on ship's radars. Now if you have 20 seconds to react to sub-sonic missile, you got only 6 seconds against supersonic one. Problem with later is that you can't even accurately calculate the point of contact because of its variable speed.

If supersonic missiles weren't a serious thing then everyone would have gone for legacy technology of sub-sonic sea skimming missiles that's around for more than half a century. This type of missile is so common that every other country in the world has Harpoon or exocepts or russian / chinese equivalents. Look up, half of the world has those missiles since 80's or 90's. Over the decades the Ship's defenses are developed exclusively to deal with these subsonic sea-skimming missiles.

The sub-sonic missile isn't a threat anymore unless the missile itself is stealth. Just sea-skimming is not enough. United states navy is already adopting NSM / LRASM which are missiles incorporating stealth technology. If only sea-skimming would have made those missiles undetectable then they would not have bothered to make it stealth. In today's age, the missile has to be either supersonic or stealth sub-sonic, stealth super-sonic would be ideal.

And that's why Atmaca is such a dangerous weapon, not because it's faster, but because it flies even lower than Harpoon

Subsonic missiles like ATAMCA, Harpoon, C802s, Exocets, Harbahs etc are not a serious threat to modern ships. These remain a threat but not a serious one anymore. Too slow & without any stealth design. Too many intercepts of houthis sub-sonic antiship missiles are recent proof of it. Sub-sonic Sea-skimming missiles are all in same category. Flying 2 meters further deep doesn't make any difference. As all kind of missiles are visible to even the oldest of radars at horizon range (25-30 km) regardless of the altitude, however a stealth missile may not be visible unless its less than 10 km or even less.

 

[LegionnairE]

Subsonic missiles like ATAMCA, Harpoon, C802s, Exocets, Harbahs etc are not a serious threat to modern ships.

You can tell that to the crew of Moskva lol