SMASH SLBM Testing - Nov 2025
- Thread starter Blain2
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Oscar
Moderator
All irrelevant whataboutism fitting a WhatsApp group.
A 500 km air-to-air shot against a maneuvering fighter is not “advanced tactics,”. Whither Missile energy, drag, target maneuvering, and no-escape zone physics all kill that idea long before the missile ever reaches anything. Even the most hyped long-range AAMs quote brochure ranges under perfect conditions against dumb, non-maneuvering targets at high altitude. Quoting those like guaranteed kill ranges on Rafales is pure fanfiction that Bhaktoras can only dream of. And tossing in “Mach speed” like that proves something is the mark of a guy who just discovered that missiles are fast and thinks that’s a technical argument. @Ak01
The “no curvature impact at that range and height” line is where the clown shoes really come out. The Earth does not go flat because you want a cooler range number. Radar horizon is a hard geometric limit; even at 40,000 feet you do not magically see and track everything cleanly at 500–1000 km over the sea. Saying “AWACS will not be flying at sea level” like that alone deletes Earth’s curvature is the kind of thing you say when you’ve never seen a basic radar-horizon diagram and are arguing with confidence instead of knowledge. Please find me a radar horizon diagram and show how.
Ill help you with math - maybe learn it.
AWACS at 40k ft has a geometric horizon of roughly 394 km to sea level. Atmospheric refraction (the usual 4/3 Earth ka radius fudge) stretches that a bit, but not into lambi lambi chorhna territory; you’re talking maybe 450 km, not 1000 km. I DOUBLE DARE YOU TO PROVE OTHERWISE.
I gave an entire detailed post on why Pakistan simply does not have that full stack in an operational, proven form at 1000 km. But this guy skips all of that and jumps straight from “rocket go far” to “operational 1000 km precision AsBM.”
The Houthi comparison is the cherry on top. “Even Houthis can land anti ship ballistic missile within 100 m of USA navy with all jamming” is what you say when you don’t understand context at all. Those attacks were cruise missiles, not ballistic, and both missile attacks ended with the missiles impacting the water before reaching the ship, causing no damage or casualties. The targeting environment was a confined maritime chokepoint, the missiles were fired from close to shore, and AEGIS picked them up and successfully intercepted or neutralized the threats. , in constrained sea lanes, with much shorter effective targeting considerations and lots of tactical specifics. That is not proof that anyone, anywhere, can run a 1000 km precision AsBM shot on demand. It’s like saying, “That guy hit a barn door with a rifle from 100 m, so I can headshot a moving target at 2 km.” Different problem set entirely but no - we can make it work in our head so it will in real life.
CM-400AKG and CM-401 are different missiles, though developed by the same developer/manufacturer. CM-401 is a TEL/ADL/VLS launch ASBM.
Given the scarcity of verifiable public information available on Chinese systems, it's futile to debate "what is based on what" but here's what I know:
CM-400AKG was operational as early as 2012. The first modern MLRS system Pakistan inducted was A-100E in 2015. SY-400 was a modular evolution of the original A-100. F1 and F2 were developed later, probably derived from SY-400 (given the design and use case similarities) - you can argue that CM-400AKG is derived from SY-400 based on Wikipedia citation which itself is making an assumption (could be true). However, under any case CM-400AKG existed before F1 and F2, and even before Pakistan's procurement of A-100E MLRS (Anti-Personnel/Anti-Armor Bomblets).
The SMASH we showed publicly being a derived version of F2 has already been mentioned and discussed in this thread way earlier.
What I'm talking about now is the possible variants of SMASH that might already be operational or under development. Information on CM-401 is scarce. What is publicly known is its skip-glide trajectory and it is assumed that it uses MaRV (although not necessarily). In any case the maneuverable concept and design is highly derived from the DF-21D. Also, DF-21D (late 2000's) is not only still in active service with PLA, it also forms the bulk of their land based A2/AD. DF-26 is the successor to it and replaces the MaRV with HGV and increased range, and that is a relatively infant system currently per production numbers. Moreover, C-401 was developed by CASIC, and DF-21D by CALT (which is a subsidiary of CASIC) - CALT also devloped A100 which later evolved into SY-400 (CASIC) - so make the connection there - it's the same developer/manufacturer basically, hence the tech similarity of C-401 with DF-21D, and CM-400AKG with A100/SY-400.
The difference b/w the two is the launch platform and range. DF-21D is land based TEL, while C-401 is Land/Ship Launched with much shallow range. C-401 can be launched from Chinese VLS and ADL (which are deeper than US version) and more recently the YJ-21 share a remarkable similarity to C-401 both in design and use case, the difference again range and HGV (assumption on my part because verifiable public info is scarce on this).
What I was hinting at was that in theory it is quite possible that Pakistan already has systems derived from DF-21D for land based ASBM (MaRV + Hypersonic Terminal Phase) with range upto 1000-1200 km - considering we already have the BMs for such a range - and C-401 derived system for ship launched ASBM (again, MaRV + Hypersonic Terminal Phase). So e.g. a SMASH variant derived from C-401 that can be launched via H/AJK-16 which is 7m deep with a range b/w 500-600 km. In comparison the YJ-21 was test fired from Chinese Type 055 with a VLS 9m deep but then again YJ-21 has a reported 1500 km range. The DF-16 has a reported range of 800-1000 km and a length of 7.8m
We have to take into account that IN is not USN, and even for USN DF-21D is still a headache. I hope I dont' have add here how you think Houthis is giving USN a tough time with lower tiered systems than DF-21D and then also go on to claim DF-21D is already retired. DF-21D was again tested by PLAN as recent as 2020-21.
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I think the answer you want is already there in 7-0 score. Modern Warfare is not a drag race where the car with the highest acceleration and top speed will win, it's more of a Rallycross, whoever is a better skilled driver will win eventually. Put simply, it boils down to Battle Tactics.
Longer answer is withheld for later
NA71
Trusted Member
NA71
Trusted Member
Score is 8-0 ....as per Trump last statement....I think the answer you want is already there in 7-0 score. Modern Warfare is not a drag race where the car with the highest acceleration and top speed will win, it's more of a Rallycross, whoever is a better skilled driver will win eventually. Put simply, it boils down to Battle Tactics.
Longer answer is withheld for later
They can do what they want. They were surprised by the range of PL-15(E) were they not?
Without going into any hypothetical tactical details, who's to say we are being truthful about the range on SMASH? Or don't have other long ranged systems that we are not disclosing?
Disinformation/Misinformation is the first casualty of modern warfare.
Liquidator
Trusted Member
This was placed on the ship that was targeted by SMASH.
Its basically a homing beacon. The Indians use it too when testing the Russian origin brahmos:
Not saying it's a bad thing.....but it highlights the need for decent radar return required....?
Someone is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong. Perhaps it's the norm when testing...
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Samurai
Registered Member
Although this is a thread related to SMASH missile, but I am seeing a lot of talks about other missiles that Pakistan can employ especially on the naval front. The one thing that everyone is mentioning or worried about is India's use of Brahmos - just like it did during the brief land war against our airbases.
My question is that, if Pakistan is going to match India in terms of capabilities, especially with the Brahmos, then why can't Pakistan get or produce the CM-302 supersonic missile? As you all know CM-302 is identical and a direct competitor to joint Russian-Indian Brahmos missile with almost the same features. If you wanna match sword with sword then get those missiles in huge numbers, so that next time if India throws 20 at you, you also throw 20 at them in return. Also these CM-302 are also going to be equipped by our Type 54 Tughril Class Frigates.
My question is that, if Pakistan is going to match India in terms of capabilities, especially with the Brahmos, then why can't Pakistan get or produce the CM-302 supersonic missile? As you all know CM-302 is identical and a direct competitor to joint Russian-Indian Brahmos missile with almost the same features. If you wanna match sword with sword then get those missiles in huge numbers, so that next time if India throws 20 at you, you also throw 20 at them in return. Also these CM-302 are also going to be equipped by our Type 54 Tughril Class Frigates.
Maarkhoor
Snake Eater
You’re right — India has done this on multiple occasions. Videos of such tests are still available. But this doesn’t mean the missile’s radar is poor. In early trials of new missiles, especially those requiring high-precision strikes, scientists often use additional guidance or tracking technologies to ensure the first tests succeed. This initial success helps them fine-tune the missile’s onboard radar and guidance systems to achieve the desired accuracy in later stages.
Regards,
its normal mate, corner reflectors are used on like every missile test
Bilal
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Corax
Registered Member
It's a radar reflector, SMASH probably uses active radar homing guidance, the reflector simulates the radar return of a vessel.
Liquidator
Trusted Member
I know what it is. I used the layman's term "homing beacon"....it's provides a greater return than what we would face in the real world.
Perhaps I should have been more clear
....what does that mean for real world situations?
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