Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

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funny although he is understating it
 
Shafagh said:
Come on man, rules went out the window the day Trump withdrew from the JCPOA and unilaterally reinstated sweeping sanctions.
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My friend, you don't understand what I'm saying, but I'll try to explain : imagine a soccer game where player CRISTIANO RONALDO scores a goal with his hand (which is illegal under FIFA rules), but the referee says "The goal was actually a goal with his hands but I like Cristiano Ronaldo and I'm going to allow his goal," and confirms the goal with FIFA's support. What would happen the next day?

It would happen that in every game, teams would demand the right to score with their hands, and then there are two options:

1. Allow every goal with hands, which would nullify the sport of soccer and its rules, becoming like basketball or handball, and would be a mess.

2. Say that only Cristiano Ronaldo and some players and teams can score with their hands, which is unfair and equally unacceptable, and would be a mess.

In both cases, the result is: it would be the end of soccer as we know it because teams would be closed, players would end their careers, sponsors would leave, fans would stop supporting and it would be the end of the sport of soccer.

Above example is the same situation where the political world has rules (such as national borders, business, treaties, flags, etc). Circumventing these rules and trying to pretend this isn't happening has always had political consequences and always will have.

And these consequences have already begun to materialize: Just look at how, for the first time in millennia, the "Israeli" elite is being publicly viewed as genocidal and villainous by Western common people and academia. If you took a "time machine" and went back 10 years and told this, no one would believe it, and that's just the beginning. It's not an Iran issue; it's an issue that no one can't go around killing women and children, killing journalists, destroying international law, and thinking there will be no exchange, because there will be.
 
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Bharatah said:
My friend, you don't understand what I'm saying, but I'll try to explain : imagine a soccer game where player CRISTIANO RONALDO scores a goal with his hand (which is illegal under FIFA rules), but the referee says "The goal was actually a goal with his hands but I like Cristiano Ronaldo and I'm going to allow his goal," and confirms the goal with FIFA's support. What would happen the next day?
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you might have a point if the JCPOA says that the Europeans cannot trigger snapback if they are themselves in significant non compliance with their obligations. but it does not say that. so you do not have a point.
 

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Won't the snapback be ineffective since China/Russia can block the re-imposition of UN sanctions?
 
Jalz said:
Won't the snapback be ineffective since China/Russia can block the re-imposition of UN sanctions?
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They can't. That's the whole purpose of putting the snapback mechanism in the JCPOA.
 
ShapurII said:
They can't. That's the whole purpose of putting the snapback mechanism in the JCPOA.
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Well its not like they were going to send us any weapons anyways. The worst part of the snapbacks is cutting us off from the international banking system but we already are. Even if the snapback is put in place I doubt China would care enough to follow it. International law is what you make of it and China is strong enough that it can tell the UN/West to stay away
 
Jalz said:
Well its not like they were going to send us any weapons anyways. The worst part of the snapbacks is cutting us off from the international banking system but we already are.
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The worst part is that we'll be just one step before invoking Article 42 on us.

Article 42 of the Chapter VII of the UN Charter:
“Should the Security Council consider that measures provided for in Article 41 would be inadequate or have proved to be inadequate, it may take such action by air, sea, or land forces as may be necessary to maintain or restore international peace and security. Such action may include demonstrations, blockade, and other operations by air, sea, or land forces of Members of the United Nations.”

Article 41 refers to UNSC sanctions against a country that is a threat to global security. So, the snapback mechanism will put Iran back under Article 42. Next time they pass a UNSC resolution on us, it could very well be Article 42 this time.
 
ShapurII said:
The worst part is that we'll be just one step before invoking Article 42 on us.

Article 42 of the Chapter VII of the UN Charter:
“Should the Security Council consider that measures provided for in Article 41 would be inadequate or have proved to be inadequate, it may take such action by air, sea, or land forces as may be necessary to maintain or restore international peace and security. Such action may include demonstrations, blockade, and other operations by air, sea, or land forces of Members of the United Nations.”

Article 41 refers to UNSC sanctions against a country that is a threat to global security. So, the snapback mechanism will put Iran back under Article 42. Next time they pass a UNSC resolution on us, it could very well be Article 42 this time.
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China and Russia would block article 42. China needs a secure oil partner in case the taiwan situation escalates and the persian gulf arab states comply with US sanctions. Plus russia doesn't want a pro-american regime blocking a secure trade route to India and south asia.
 
Jalz said:
China and Russia would block article 42. China needs a secure oil partner in case the taiwan situation escalates and the persian gulf arab states comply with US sanctions. Plus russia doesn't want a pro-american regime blocking a secure trade route to India and south asia.
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China and Russia both supported the UNSC resolutions and sanctions against Iran that put Iran in this situation to begin with
 
For the Russophiles here


The snapback mechanism, or the automatic reimposition of UN Security Council sanctions on Iran, has been a topic of debate, uncertainty, and at times, criticism of the JCPOA negotiating team for nearly a decade in Iran’s political and legal circles.

This was a method for the swift return of Security Council sanctions, designed and proposed by Sergey Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister, and included in Resolution 2231.

In the Security Council’s vote on the resolution, veto power was removed following a proposal by Russia, meaning no country could block the draft resolution or prevent the return of sanctions on Iran using a veto.


 
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