Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[Shafagh]

Perhaps flood Iraqi airspace with large amounts of drones emiting large radar signatures, to overwhelm radars and air crews.

 

[ShapurII]

idk man , the airbase where i was at during the may conflict had 100% interception rate . and it is very close to the border . even iron dome failed a few times . we accept our ADs were not up to the task (esp for cruise missiles and drones ) but that will definitely be solved

We are looking for excuses not to buy stuff, as always.
When your mentality is that, even 99% interception rate is bad.

It's not like Bavar-373 has been such a huge success either.
We don't know if this project is even real to begin with. How many have been produced after 15 years of claiming the project exists? lol

A country like Iran with its massive size needs at least 40 batteries of S-300 PMU2 or an equivalent system, not just 4, of which 2 have been confirmed destroyed.

 

[Watandar]

why you think china would offer us the same hq9 they offered to Pakistan!?

Why not ? Chinese want to make money and prove their equipment to the world. If Chinese tech performs well against Israelis, their reputation will become gold plated.

 

[BigMela2onin]

It's not like Bavar-373 has been such a huge success either.
We don't know if this project is even real to begin with. How many have been produced after 15 years of claiming the project exists? lol

I think it's real, it's just too expensive and priority is given to filling the pockets of corrupt officials over procuring defense equipment.

 

[mangekyo]

Having jets in the sky, whether they are Su 35s, or Mig 29s, might mean the difference between a 20 missile salvo reaching Israel, and a 30 missile salvo. I know it sounds miniscule, but the window to intercept Iranian missiles before terminal phase is very short.

If they can hold the Israelis back to get several more missiles launched, it could mean enough missiles get through to completely destroy a target.

That’s only true if we can actually protect the planes. Right now we couldn’t even protect our TELs deep inside the country, which are stationary and camouflaged. They even found and hit the decoys. A Cold War era fighter is a large and noisy target by comparison. The Israelis have repeatedly shown they can strike deep inside Iran with precision, so putting jets in the air without layered air defense and hardened infrastructure would turn them into easy targets.

Beyond that, we would need well trained air defense operators and proper coordination to avoid friendly fire incidents. We already shot down the Ukrainian passenger plane, and even the Indians, with far better equipment, have made similar mistakes.

Jets can make a difference, but only as part of a complete and defended air system with early warning, strong air defenses, hardened bases, dispersed logistics, and properly trained crews. We have none of these.

 

[Shafagh]

It's not like Bavar-373 has been such a huge success either.

We don't know if Bavar-373 is a failure. For all we know, there could have been only 5 batteries built and maybe were not combat ready.

 

[iblini]

Why not ? Chinese want to make money and prove their equipment to the world. If Chinese tech performs well against Israelis, their reputation will become gold plated.

Then it's not just a few batteries of AD, a total overhauled is needed, I don't see it possible.

 

[muhammed45]

Why not ? Chinese want to make money and prove their equipment to the world. If Chinese tech performs well against Israelis, their reputation will become gold plated.

Chinese air defense systems are not tested against western platforms until now. It will be the worst decision we can make. Russian ones on the contrary have been observing American assets over Syrian airspace for years now. Esp F-35 of Israel and F-22 of American coalition.

Despite having S-300PMU2, we still suffered from a sudden attack on our IADS. What benefit does importing Chinese systems have? We have Bavar-373 with more range and local capacity to improve it at will/ produce it at will. It will be a waste of resources to import from China.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Chinese air defense systems are not tested against western platforms until now. It will be the worst decision we can make. Russian ones on the contrary have been observing American assets over Syrian airspace for years now. Esp F-35 of Israel and F-22 of American coalition.

Despite having S-300PMU2, we still suffered from a sudden attack on our IADS. What benefit does importing Chinese systems have? We have Bavar-373 with more range and local capacity to improve it at will/ produce it at will. It will be a waste of resources to import from China.

I think at this stage, Chinese systems outclass Russian systems for sure. Look at the innovation of Chinese industry. They are at 6th gen airframe but somehow russia is producing better systems?

Also, China has vast manufacturing scale, to deliver systems on mass. Iran does not, Irans systems are like pet projects with slow delivery schedules. Iran needs large amounts of IADS systems now, and not Promise of delivery in 10-15 years which is where you are with Iranian systems..

 

[Michael]

Then it's not just a few batteries of AD, a total overhauled is needed, I don't see it possible.

Whether on other media platforms or here, we see two completely different "perspectives" coming from Iran:

Perspective A:
China's weapons and equipment are inferior and have not been tested in combat. They are far inferior to the weapon systems of the United States, Russia, Europe, and other countries. ------ They are not worth buying.

Perspective B:
China is unwilling to sell advanced weapons systems to Iran.

 

[muhammed45]

I think at this stage, Chinese systems outclass Russian systems for sure. Look at the innovation of Chinese industry. They are at 6th gen airframe but somehow russia is producing better systems?

Also, China has vast manufacturing scale, to deliver systems on mass. Iran does not, Irans systems are like pet projects with slow delivery schedules. Iran needs large amounts of IADS systems now, and not Promise of delivery in 10-15 years which is where you are with Iranian systems..

Cooperation with China in the military field is good. But there are political factors, my friend.

China evaluates benefits and consequences. They have hundreds of billions of dollars trade with USA. Will they sacrifice it because of Iran? Obviously no. So any cooperation with China in the military field will be short-lived and also dangerous. But In the field of economy, China for keeping her own energy balance intact, imports Iranian oil.

Not to mention in order to have a capable A2/AD, We have to import a huge amount of Chinese weapons system to make an integrated network and China will not accept it because of the same evaluation.

Moreover, Chinese systems are good when they are a complete network, like we saw with Pakistani case. Without coverage of AWACS, PAF would have faced multiple challenges against Rafales. We do not have that deep pocket, China does not have the will and its better to stand on our own feet as a logical conclusion.

In the field of air defense systems, Russian systems are battle proven. Iranian systems are under development. So we do not need Chinese ones.

In the airforce section, we cannot mass produce a capable jet. Its bitter but a reality. The best reachable source is Russia and if not possible, same old strategy. Hit back with missiles and stealth drones. Instead of making an economic burden of foreign jets.

 

[ToddE]

We are looking for excuses not to buy stuff, as always.
When your mentality is that, even 99% interception rate is bad.

It's not like Bavar-373 has been such a huge success either.
We don't know if this project is even real to begin with. How many have been produced after 15 years of claiming the project exists? lol

A country like Iran with its massive size needs at least 40 batteries of S-300 PMU2 or an equivalent system, not just 4, of which 2 have been confirmed destroyed.

Bavar-373 is a lethal HIMAD, tested multiple times, built through international cooperation with a superpower, its downgraded form is even being marketed in aerospace exhibitions. Read Tom Cooper's piece on it, IEI/SAIRAN and their deep TOTs from CATIC, China on their projects. Trust me all these TVCed Sayyad HIMADs, NAJM AESA radars, Giant OTHs were not born in Iran. Tech came into Iran from very reliable source and Bavar is no different. Bavar-373 is equivalent to S-400 performance wise. Problem is IRI's old habit of producing prototypes and not establishing serial productions. Services fall short on cash because 500+ billion USD went to useless Arab Proxies. If that money was in hands of IRIAF + IRIADF .... 20 Batteries of Bavar-373 + layers of Khordad-3/15, Majid SHORADs + 200 Kowsar with their datalinked UCAVs on CAPs sound bad for IADS ? No but this does not exist because money was the problem, product was not bad. Lets not go irrational in our hatred for government. I oppose IRI too.

 

[ToddE]

idk man , the airbase where i was at during the may conflict had 100% interception rate . and it is very close to the border . even iron dome failed a few times . we accept our ADs were not up to the task (esp for cruise missiles and drones ) but that will definitely be solved

Current Air-Defense tech is a stage below the Missile Tech hence we saw even the worlds most guarded/layered AD being thrashed.

 

[hasssanali8998]

Current Air-Defense tech is a stage below the Missile Tech hence we saw even the worlds most guarded/layered AD being thrashed.

yes but my point still stands , HQ9 is not bad we just dont have enough of them

 

[ToddE]

That would be stopgap
Later they can built a kowsar 2 to answer those problems step by step. Gripped e, or f16 block 70+ or j10c didn't become what they are now over a night

HESA does not have the capacity to modify the aerodynamics of F-5E/F without proper modern wind-tunnels.

- They tried with V Tailed Saeghe I/II, as per people who saw Kish AIrshow, Saeghe is probably highly maneuverable as well. But they probably gained nothing out of them so project was abandoned.

- Tazarve AT was abandoned due to Crash.

- Yasin AT's 2nd prototype crashed, its other surviving prototype almost crashed due to vibration in wings. Test Pilot had to dash back to land it.

I believe, the best they can get out of F-5 airframe is Kowsar for Advance Combat Training, CAS, within IADS CAP etc. Unless they can enlarge the airframe (time and $ consuming) it will stay a light fighter with Combat + AT like role. Equation changes if they can somehow get a modern turbofan for it.

By the way f14 unless its equipped with aesa radar is useless against modern aircrafts and is only limited to fighting drones and Cruise missiles

Unless SU-35S arrives (if? when?), IRIAF's best bet was extensively upgraded and MLUed F-14AM armed with Azarakhsh WVR and Fakour-90/Maghsoud. Remember IRIAF only has to disrupt IAF over Iraq. Target their tankers etc.