$7.5 billion Sukhoi fighter upgrade begins, to involve Indian private sector in big way

[Fifa124]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1811281525364707448

 

[Yasser76]

DDG-80 is back....

 

[harpy1]

A lot of it has to do with budget and fleet requirements, PLAAF has/ requires 1500 fighters, for them having 500 J11/J16 / SU27/SU35 is no big deal.

Indian airforce requirements are centered around a 700 fighter force, so their fighter mix is going to be a lot different
IAF hopes to cut down the mix to just 3-4 different fighters by 2035


Indian Airforce doctrine calls for Heavy medium and Light Fighter mix

Heavy fighters bring in long range and higher payload , but they are also expensive to fly and maintain
That role is played by Su30MKI in IAF

Medium weight fighters like the Rafale , Typhoon can carry similar payload to heavy fighters but have shorter range
but they have advantages like far lower RCS , lower running and maintenance cost, they can also take off from high altitude airbases with decent payload due to their lower weight
Thats why you see Mig29UPG, Mirage 2000 and Tejas performing Combat Air Patrol missions in Ladakh .

Light fighters like Tejas, JF17, TF50 have a small weapons payload and lower range, but they are also cheaper to buy and Operate and can make up squadron numbers while providing decent capabilities in point defence and CAP

Under Ideal conditions India would like to field
270 Su30mki in heavy category across 13 sqds
150 Rafale F4/5 in medium category across 7-8 sqds
340 Tejas MK1A/B/2 in light category across 17 sqds

With AMCA replacing older su30s post 2037

This I like im.sure it's what's needed but realistically knowing India

We will end up with by 2035 imo

260, Mki only 100 upgraded
70 Rafale one more small order
60 Tejas MK2
180 Tejas mk1A

Amca not before 2040

 

[nahtanbob]

7.5 billion USD to upgrade 84-90 Su30MKI , Thats 85 MIL USD per unit is on the expensive side considering that most of the upgrades are from domestic source

even brand new SU35K with all of the above upgrades would have cost us not more than 110 million USD

That includes the NRE (non-recurring engineering) costs

 

[TopGun786]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1811281525364707448

Back with a new ID?

 

[Archie]

DDG-80 is back....

How can you be so sure

Are you able to track his IP address

 

[Yasser76]

How can you be so sure

Are you able to track his IP address

Comes online just after DDG-80 is banned with similar posts. I do not have to be a seasoned detective to work it out. Cute you are defending him though.

 

[Archie]

This I like im.sure it's what's needed but realistically knowing India

We will end up with by 2035 imo

260, Mki only 100 upgraded
70 Rafale one more small order
60 Tejas MK2
180 Tejas mk1A

Amca not before 2040

I was discussing an ideal scenario.

We all are aware of the reality

Su30mki number will remain around 260 despite purchase of 12 additional aircrafts ,given IAF tendency to crash atleast 1 Su30mki a year since

As far as Rafale are concerned,
I don't see us buying 114 Rafales. However 36-54 additional Rafale F5 cannot be ruled out for a combined 72-90 Rafale Fleet .

We need these many Rafales because our present Mig29upg and Mirage2000v5 will retire in next 10 yrs and Tejas Mk2 will not be ready in adequate numbers by then

Infact as far as Tejas is concerned
We will be lucky to have 40 Tejas Mk1 + 180 Tejas Mk1a by 2035 , given the fact that HAL is struggling to deliver 16 Tejas a year , 180 aircrafts in 10yrs is a Daunting task for them

 

[Yasser76]

I was discussing an ideal scenario.

We all are aware of the reality

Su30mki number will remain around 260 despite purchase of 12 additional aircrafts ,given IAF tendency to crash atleast 1 Su30mki a year since

As far as Rafale are concerned,
I don't see us buying 114 Rafales. However 36-54 additional Rafale F5 cannot be ruled out for a combined 72-90 Rafale Fleet .

We need these many Rafales because our present Mig29upg and Mirage2000v5 will retire in next 10 yrs and Tejas Mk2 will not be ready in adequate numbers by then

Infact as far as Tejas is concerned
We will be lucky to have 40 Tejas Mk1 + 180 Tejas Mk1a by 2035 , given the fact that HAL is struggling to deliver 16 Tejas a year , 180 aircrafts in 10yrs is a Daunting task for them

This is probably realistic, but a while ago when Pakistani posters were stating this, many Indians on here had their head in the sand and said we would be proven wrong.

 

[MirageBlue]

I am guessing a portion of the upgrade includes the new engines which will eat up a far a amount of the cost. Dropping Russian avionics is one of the best decisions for India. Russia has never been good at avionics and India right now has more software engineering capabilities than Russia anyway right now.

The Su30MKI is quite flawed now for the era of warfare we are in with its massive elephant size RCS values - the best that India can do is to use up their capabilities as they are for that paid for and see what its next set of options are.

If RCS was the only issue then how is the F-15EX/QA/SA relevant or why is the USAF buying F-15Xs? Remember, no RCS reduction measures were adopted for the F-15 after the Silent Eagle program died without any customers.

The Su-30MKI upgrade will add a pretty big Indian AESA radar, Indian AESA EW suite, new Indian IRST, plus MAWS and the SDR that is already being added to the Su-30MKI fleet.

Weapons that have been integrated with the Su-30MKI, like the Astra Mk1/2, NGARM, Brahmos-A, Rudram 1/2, SAAW, the Israeli Spice 2000, Rampage, plus multiple LGBs, etc. will keep it at the forefront of the IAF's firepower.

 

[Guru Dutt]

I was discussing an ideal scenario.

We all are aware of the reality

Su30mki number will remain around 260 despite purchase of 12 additional aircrafts ,given IAF tendency to crash atleast 1 Su30mki a year since

As far as Rafale are concerned,
I don't see us buying 114 Rafales. However 36-54 additional Rafale F5 cannot be ruled out for a combined 72-90 Rafale Fleet .

We need these many Rafales because our present Mig29upg and Mirage2000v5 will retire in next 10 yrs and Tejas Mk2 will not be ready in adequate numbers by then

Infact as far as Tejas is concerned
We will be lucky to have 40 Tejas Mk1 + 180 Tejas Mk1a by 2035 , given the fact that HAL is struggling to deliver 16 Tejas a year , 180 aircrafts in 10yrs is a Daunting task for them

there is a new twist

IAF is getting any Mirage2000 (seconhand) it can get from France , greece or if possible quatar and use some for parts and rest as new platforms after upgrading them (thanks LCA and to this super sukhoi programme & lessosn learnt from it )

besides that they are for last so many years in talks with russians over 5th gen platform and upgrading it with mix of indian and western weapons and avionicks but after eukrain that possibility was very low so the parellel talks were on with USA for the same not lets see who gets the prize cause new 5th gen will be baought at least 3 squads before AMCA joins IAF

while there were talks with USAF that was ready to sell almost 15 squads (15X16) EX USAF F16 BLK 52s to IAF after fully upgrading them to VERSION V level with new engines , radar and avionics and new hydrolicks and a new weapons package ... talkson that started during Trump looks like will end when hes back in the Hot seat again

 

[Archie]

there is a new twist

IAF is getting any Mirage2000 (seconhand) it can get from France , greece or if possible quatar and use some for parts and rest as new platforms after upgrading them (thanks LCA and to this super sukhoi programme & lessosn learnt from it )

besides that they are for last so many years in talks with russians over 5th gen platform and upgrading it with mix of indian and western weapons and avionicks but after eukrain that possibility was very low so the parellel talks were on with USA for the same not lets see who gets the prize cause new 5th gen will be baought at least 3 squads before AMCA joins IAF

while there were talks with USAF that was ready to sell almost 15 squads (15X16) EX USAF F16 BLK 52s to IAF after fully upgrading them to VERSION V level with new engines , radar and avionics and new hydrolicks and a new weapons package ... talkson that started during Trump looks like will end when hes back in the Hot seat again

Democrats have to go
Biden is now senile
And his party has gone complete woke

Trump might even be willing to sell F35As to India .
Their are voices within IAF that are insisting on buying around 54 5th gen fighters to act as a hedge against China.

The main problem is that have not had a militarist leader since Vajpayee .
Earlier defence purchases never took 10 years to finalize .

Whether it is T-90 tanks, Su30Mki purchase, Falcon Awacs IL78 refuellers INS Vikramaditya, and Vikrant ,Scorpenes, Talwar class Frigates, Kolkata class Destroyers, .
Bulk of Indian weapon purchases were done during his time.
All Manmohan did was buy a bunch of Transport aircrafts and P8I ASW aircrafts.

When Modi came to power, I was expecting big defence purchases, but no. He continued with Congress policy of Free Food and Healthcare for the poor. As well as making token purchases of Big ticket items like Rafales , Apache, Chinook, M777 and K9 Howitzers

We have a 650 Billion USD forex reserve and a 4 Trillion USD GDP , I am sure we can find 25 Billion USD for 114 MRFA fighters and 12 Billion USD for 9 advance submarines .

But no , Government will still take 10 yrs to finalize

 

[harpy1]

This is probably realistic, but a while ago when Pakistani posters were stating this, many Indians on here had their head in the sand and said we would be proven wrong.

TBF fleet numbers are getting smaller globally anyways

For me the fleet will be far more modernised and combat ready thanks to indengious efforts of our military .

This includes very large no's of Aesa equipped fighters with Indian systems be it Mki upgrades or the Tejas family

I also like the stand off weapons coming like rudram and Astra

But what excites more is the drones and other force multiplers

Like Predator drones or the possibility of both Rafale Marine and Rafale F5 wing man drones like neuron .

When factor in the Awacs fleet doubling even tripling to 18 thanks to Netra and add in the layered Sam system led by S400 and our own systems it's a huge increase in capability

It's not just buying forty or fifty new fighters ..

 

[harpy1]

This I like im.sure it's what's needed but realistically knowing India

We will end up with by 2035 imo

260, Mki only 100 upgraded
70 Rafale one more small order
60 Tejas MK2
180 Tejas mk1A

Amca not before 2040

Looking at my expectation above
The only thing lacking is a fifth generation fighter
I still believe if Amca is delayed expect a lot of noise from.europe on India buying either Tempest or french Fifth generation fighters landing a big deal in India
India is a massive market and only getting bigger

 

[Guru Dutt]

Democrats have to go
Biden is now senile
And his party has gone complete woke

Trump might even be willing to sell F35As to India .
Their are voices within IAF that are insisting on buying around 54 5th gen fighters to act as a hedge against China.

The main problem is that have not had a militarist leader since Vajpayee .
Earlier defence purchases never took 10 years to finalize .

Whether it is T-90 tanks, Su30Mki purchase, Falcon Awacs IL78 refuellers INS Vikramaditya, and Vikrant ,Scorpenes, Talwar class Frigates, Kolkata class Destroyers, .
Bulk of Indian weapon purchases were done during his time.
All Manmohan did was buy a bunch of Transport aircrafts and P8I ASW aircrafts.

When Modi came to power, I was expecting big defence purchases, but no. He continued with Congress policy of Free Food and Healthcare for the poor. As well as making token purchases of Big ticket items like Rafales , Apache, Chinook, M777 and K9 Howitzers

We have a 650 Billion USD forex reserve and a 4 Trillion USD GDP , I am sure we can find 25 Billion USD for 114 MRFA fighters and 12 Billion USD for 9 advance submarines .

But no , Government will still take 10 yrs to finalize

its not easy when you have a so called "Baitaal" of corrupt and incompetent beurocracy and activist jeudicarry sitting on your back when they know they wont be getting there "share of the spoils" same gose with media ecosystem

so when Beurocrats , media persons and jeudoicarry and there elitiest activists are there scrutinizzing your every move and your in a democracy where every three months there is a major election tell me how can a person work the way he should still two successive BJP govts could achive in last 10 years is no less than a mirackle

now as for Sukhois and LCA or for that matter lack of them its more of problem with IAFs letahrgy to be more receptive to indian made stuff than anything else ... but then those running the show know more than what we can debate on the forum .... cheers mate