Egypt is considering the establishment of a factory for the production and assembly F-31/35

[lightning f57]

The rumours and newsmill around the J31/J35 has increased last few months. Just makes me curious what the real deal is, my head is saying its years away from mass production but I wonder if SAC has kept this under wraps and its much advance than we think.

 

[MastanKhan]

That's why that guy @Deino keeps laughing childloishly at your posts (don't worry he does that to a few of mine every once in a while I can remember 2 so far) and when I call him out on it, he ignores me because either he just doesn't feel like spending the time to argue a useless point or he just thinks someone like Pakistan will not be flying the FC-31 anytime soon just ask @MastanKhan that and he will tell you about the whole thread in the PAF thread where it's titled "Pakistan Air Force will so induct the FC-31" and our friend jumped ugly on all of them for even thinking of the possibility.

Now for me, what I know is the original FC-31 all black right here:

View attachment 57725

Was the only image that ever came out and we thought that was the final design, it looked just like a mini-F-22 Raptor with the huge vertical stabilizers etc. and that would be it. But years went by and nothing happened until this bad Larry showed up and we were all like WTF!!!! WOW that looks friggin incredible! But some are saying this is the carrier/naval version. So we don't really know for sure, do we?

Admittingly it seems relatively unlikely but not totally farfetched either IMO

How many changes do they really have to implement on the airframe in order to incorporate side bays? Maybe the the potential enlargement need is not neccesary as big it seems. Just sayin. The engine will be incrementally improved too with every other batch.

Maybe the sidebays are a goal for a redesigned/upgraded version some years into the future

Hi,

If you believe the US congress had hearings on F35 issues---believe the news that F35 design and tech was stolen---have read that chinese personal in jail for espionage of F35 leaked information---then it is not far fetched to believe that all design parameters were kept in place enforce---engineers call it "modular design"

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

I am not surprised the Arab Nations are now looking towards China. The treacherous USA has shown their true colours when dealing with other nations.

 

[GoMig-21]

Hi,

If you believe the US congress had hearings on F35 issues---believe the news that F35 design and tech was stolen---have read that chinese personal in jail for espionage of F35 leaked information---then it is not far fetched to believe that all design parameters were kept in place enforce---engineers call it "modular design"

I followed the thread here and there and got the jest of it pretty much in that it seems like Pakistan's PAF is first in line for the FC-31 and rightfully so. But what other news are there, legitimate ones that you know of? Something along the lines of the JF-17 production line or just a procurement of jets to start out with and then add to later like the J-10C? Do you know?

I'm only asking to see if there is any similarity to what is trying to be accomplished here. Not only a production/assembly line, but for the eventual number of over 100 aircraft or so and the same is already being discussed with Dassault and supposedly the discussions are in their very advanced stage. Personally, I don't see Dassault giving any ToT or assembly rights to any model Rafale the only exception being that they can't keep up with all the orders they;re getting, so they need help. But we know India is a front-runner with that aspect and they have extensive experience I would say much more than Egypt. So for me, that's a huge question mark which brings up to this FC-31 and which one is it, the 31 or 35? It seems like they're change to the 35 has a lot to do with the negative aspects of testing that resulted from the FC-31 where they made the canted vertical stabilizers much smaller and moved them much more forward of the fuselage as well as some other dynamics such as the front cockpit etc.

So what do you think is happening? Is the PAF interested in a production line or just acquisition for now and what about the two different models?

 

[Sami_1]

.

That's why that guy @Deino keeps laughing childloishly at your posts (don't worry he does that to a few of mine every once in a while I can remember 2 so far) and when I call him out on it, he ignores me because either he just doesn't feel like spending the time to argue a useless point or he just thinks someone like Pakistan will not be flying the FC-31 anytime soon just ask @MastanKhan that and he will tell you about the whole thread in the PAF thread where it's titled "Pakistan Air Force will so induct the FC-31" and our friend jumped ugly on all of them for even thinking of the possibility.

Now for me, what I know is the original FC-31 all black right here:

View attachment 57725

Was the only image that ever came out and we thought that was the final design, it looked just like a mini-F-22 Raptor with the huge vertical stabilizers etc. and that would be it. But years went by and nothing happened until this bad Larry showed up and we were all like WTF!!!! WOW that looks friggin incredible! But some are saying this is the carrier/naval version. So we don't really know for sure, do we?

View attachment 57722

Either way, what Deino has a problem with is that he thinks we're all going to be getting this great stealth aircraft next year if not sooner. Of course that'll never happen since there are at least 5 to 8 more years of not only more prototype construction, but mximum testing which also takes an additional 2 years at least! Then there is China's own production line which takes a fair amount of time to organize, set up and build and work out all the problems etc. and they start producing CHINA'S OWN aircraft first. How many will China need before it starts even thinking of an export version, let alone a ToT production line? 10 years? I would say AT LEAST. So is any of this is to happen, export to Pakistan if that's all it's interested in might happen in 8 years at the soonest from now and ToT assembly in Egypt if it does happen might take at least 10 years if not more.

I think it eveyone understands these basic concepts, the discussion would be much better IMO. The only problem I have with the crap coming from @Deino is that he thinks China would NEVER give Egypt any type of ToT or assembly at all, NEVER! Coming from him it's rather surprising and when I asked him, he didn't answer. Wonder why? Maybe he was unaware of the extensive relationship Egypt has with the great people of China.

What is the value of @Deino Yes, he is old in forums, whether Chinese or Western. I know seriously that since he used to enter forums to ask about Western engines and engines, they respect him in the Chinese forum because he is old, but in the end he is an amateur who does not make decisions and does not have anything in his hand and cannot add or prevent anything. He is the one who determines who buys, who makes, and who collects. He does not have the power to give a country anything or prevent anything. Even his flag is not worth a single dollar in the world of money. Therefore, he presents an opinion and my opinion is not taken into consideration or given importance. Some people ignore him because responding to him gives him value, price, or influence, and this does not exist. Our nerves are at ease by ignoring those who do not deserve it. We leave those who howl and we leave those who speak. They will not affect us, nor will they add anything of value or benefit, nor will he benefit Egypt from the opinion of the union or its manufacture if it wants. So not responding and ignoring is much better.


The aircraft is believed to have been frozen in design, and therefore is considered the closest to the production version. If Egypt meets the Egyptian demands, it will contract for it, and perhaps Egypt will actually use it as a pressure tool to obtain a better aircraft at a lower price. We always consider the Chinese product to be equivalent to the cheap product, and unfortunately many consider any Chinese product to be poor due to an unsound culture. In the end, China produces a product according to the customer's needs, whether the Air Force. Some countries' complaints about Chinese equipment, such as the JF-17 aircraft, or the poor quality of Chinese vehicles and armored vehicles are due to those who selected the equipment and did not care about the required quality levels. We explained in the past the extent of Egypt's suffering from the K-8E aircraft, and how Egypt tried to improve its quality and performance with more reliable components, but in the end it still serves after being repaired. This is perhaps the reason for Egypt's distancing from the L-15 aircraft for fear of reputation. The poor quality of Chinese aircraft, and some Chinese now say we give and withhold as if it is a special product, so we clarify that simply if the aircraft’s final specifications meet Egyptian demands, Egypt will contract for it, and China needs a large Egyptian contract to open international markets for the aircraft, as there are no reliable Chinese aircraft customers or evidence of the quality of the Chinese equipment produced, and in order for China to obtain a quality certificate for its aircraft, there must be an air customer that countries respect and trust in its choices.

 

[Deino]

.

What is the value of @Deino Yes, he is old in forums, whether Chinese or Western. I know seriously that since he used to enter forums to ask about Western engines and engines, they respect him in the Chinese forum because he is old, but in the end he is an amateur who does not make decisions and does not have anything in his hand and cannot add or prevent anything. He is the one who determines who buys, who makes, and who collects. He does not have the power to give a country anything or prevent anything. Even his flag is not worth a single dollar in the world of money. Therefore, he presents an opinion and my opinion is not taken into consideration or given importance. Some people ignore him because responding to him gives him value, price, or influence, and this does not exist. Our nerves are at ease by ignoring those who do not deserve it. We leave those who howl and we leave those who speak. They will not affect us, nor will they add anything of value or benefit, nor will he benefit Egypt from the opinion of the union or its manufacture if it wants. So not responding and ignoring is much better.

View attachment 57773
The aircraft is believed to have been frozen in design, and therefore is considered the closest to the production version. If Egypt meets the Egyptian demands, it will contract for it, and perhaps Egypt will actually use it as a pressure tool to obtain a better aircraft at a lower price. We always consider the Chinese product to be equivalent to the cheap product, and unfortunately many consider any Chinese product to be poor due to an unsound culture. In the end, China produces a product according to the customer's needs, whether the Air Force. Some countries' complaints about Chinese equipment, such as the JF-17 aircraft, or the poor quality of Chinese vehicles and armored vehicles are due to those who selected the equipment and did not care about the required quality levels. We explained in the past the extent of Egypt's suffering from the K-8E aircraft, and how Egypt tried to improve its quality and performance with more reliable components, but in the end it still serves after being repaired. This is perhaps the reason for Egypt's distancing from the L-15 aircraft for fear of reputation. The poor quality of Chinese aircraft, and some Chinese now say we give and withhold as if it is a special product, so we clarify that simply if the aircraft’s final specifications meet Egyptian demands, Egypt will contract for it, and China needs a large Egyptian contract to open international markets for the aircraft, as there are no reliable Chinese aircraft customers or evidence of the quality of the Chinese equipment produced, and in order for China to obtain a quality certificate for its aircraft, there must be an air customer that countries respect and trust in its choices.

But what is your value? Spreading fan-boy theories and unrealistic claims?

I never said I make any decisions, I’m an analyst but who or what are you?
And surely you are in an even least position of making decisions…

As such, I‘m sure I‘m not only respected since I’m old and surely not since I’m asking questions on engines … maybe you should better check who I am and what I do?!

 

[ety]

.

What is the value of @Deino Yes, he is old in forums, whether Chinese or Western. I know seriously that since he used to enter forums to ask about Western engines and engines, they respect him in the Chinese forum because he is old, but in the end he is an amateur who does not make decisions and does not have anything in his hand and cannot add or prevent anything. He is the one who determines who buys, who makes, and who collects. He does not have the power to give a country anything or prevent anything. Even his flag is not worth a single dollar in the world of money. Therefore, he presents an opinion and my opinion is not taken into consideration or given importance. Some people ignore him because responding to him gives him value, price, or influence, and this does not exist. Our nerves are at ease by ignoring those who do not deserve it. We leave those who howl and we leave those who speak. They will not affect us, nor will they add anything of value or benefit, nor will he benefit Egypt from the opinion of the union or its manufacture if it wants. So not responding and ignoring is much better.

View attachment 57773
The aircraft is believed to have been frozen in design, and therefore is considered the closest to the production version. If Egypt meets the Egyptian demands, it will contract for it, and perhaps Egypt will actually use it as a pressure tool to obtain a better aircraft at a lower price. We always consider the Chinese product to be equivalent to the cheap product, and unfortunately many consider any Chinese product to be poor due to an unsound culture. In the end, China produces a product according to the customer's needs, whether the Air Force. Some countries' complaints about Chinese equipment, such as the JF-17 aircraft, or the poor quality of Chinese vehicles and armored vehicles are due to those who selected the equipment and did not care about the required quality levels. We explained in the past the extent of Egypt's suffering from the K-8E aircraft, and how Egypt tried to improve its quality and performance with more reliable components, but in the end it still serves after being repaired. This is perhaps the reason for Egypt's distancing from the L-15 aircraft for fear of reputation. The poor quality of Chinese aircraft, and some Chinese now say we give and withhold as if it is a special product, so we clarify that simply if the aircraft’s final specifications meet Egyptian demands, Egypt will contract for it, and China needs a large Egyptian contract to open international markets for the aircraft, as there are no reliable Chinese aircraft customers or evidence of the quality of the Chinese equipment produced, and in order for China to obtain a quality certificate for its aircraft, there must be an air customer that countries respect and trust in its choices.

You don't have to buy them.

 

[Ghostkiller]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1816856133115552166

The #Égypte is reportedly finalizing an agreement with the #Chine for the acquisition of 5th generation FC-31 (J-31) stealth fighters, thereby strengthening its military capabilities with advanced technologies. Joint production and technology transfer agreements are also being considered.

View attachment 57353

Not a reliable source. I read his posts but he doesn't have sources

 

[GoMig-21]

Not a reliable source. I read his posts but he doesn't have sources

I think most intelligent people can figure that out for themselves, I highly doubt they (and certainly not me) need you to remind them of such. However, reliable or not, it does support the basics of @Sami_1 's overall topic of the thread and people can make their own conclusion, wouldn't you agree?

Either way, do you have anything better to contribute than a usual periodic refute of someone's post?

 

[Ghostkiller]

I think most intelligent people can figure that out for themselves, I highly doubt they (and certainly not me) need you to remind them of such. However, reliable or not, it does support the basics of @Sami_1 's overall topic of the thread and people can make their own conclusion, wouldn't you agree?

Either way, do you have anything better to contribute than a usual periodic refute of someone's post?

I was in vacation so didn't really followed the news hahaha. Till now, there is no a real source. But I hope it is true.

 

[MastanKhan]

I followed the thread here and there and got the jest of it pretty much in that it seems like Pakistan's PAF is first in line for the FC-31 and rightfully so. But what other news are there, legitimate ones that you know of? Something along the lines of the JF-17 production line or just a procurement of jets to start out with and then add to later like the J-10C? Do you know?

I'm only asking to see if there is any similarity to what is trying to be accomplished here. Not only a production/assembly line, but for the eventual number of over 100 aircraft or so and the same is already being discussed with Dassault and supposedly the discussions are in their very advanced stage. Personally, I don't see Dassault giving any ToT or assembly rights to any model Rafale the only exception being that they can't keep up with all the orders they;re getting, so they need help. But we know India is a front-runner with that aspect and they have extensive experience I would say much more than Egypt. So for me, that's a huge question mark which brings up to this FC-31 and which one is it, the 31 or 35? It seems like they're change to the 35 has a lot to do with the negative aspects of testing that resulted from the FC-31 where they made the canted vertical stabilizers much smaller and moved them much more forward of the fuselage as well as some other dynamics such as the front cockpit etc.

So what do you think is happening? Is the PAF interested in a production line or just acquisition for now and what about the two different models?

Hi,

Paf is keeping a very tight lid on its affairs till they decide they have to blurt out the information.

Paf has a lots on its plates---with 2 new 4.5 gen systems at hand the J10C's and the JF17 BLK 3---it is a herculean task to get these systems running at 110% capability.

The J10 will be matching the procurement of the Rafales.

 

[Sami_1]

You don't have to buy them.

This depends on the requirements of the Egyptian Air Force. I am not the decision maker. According to the published news, whether before the visit or the Tactical Reports from two years ago, and the published news about the visit, we only present a vision for that. The advantages that both parties can benefit from. The mockery of some led to ignoring their presence and putting each in its true size. I myself do not like the Chinese product, which has a reputation for always being poor, and I do not prefer the Turkish product as a result of Turkey's colonial and hostile policy and Turkey's desire to seize the wealth of peoples. We are looking for independence, dealing as equals, and achieving the greatest benefits in exchange for value for money. We criticize the Egyptian leadership because it is not interested in industry and production sectors. Simply put, we have those who are capable of creativity and we are not imitators or thieves of countries' patents, but those worse than us are leading us. Therefore, our situation is not good. If we want to buy equipment from any country, you think that they will control us and impose their conditions on us, even in traditional trade. Two months ago, the Russians raised the price of wheat supplies to Egypt to $265 as a form of pressure. On Egypt, Egypt refused to buy Russian wheat and obtained it from Romania, Bulgaria and Ukraine at a price less than $27. When the Russians found themselves losing the market, they returned to provide wheat at competitive prices to other countries. Some do not understand that no one controls us and we implement our wills according to our interests. If an agreement with China is not reached, we will not worry because there are alternatives such as South Korea. The negotiations with China may originally have been to force South Korea to reduce prices, especially since South Korea decided to develop a 25,000-pound-ton engine instead of the American GE F-414 engines. That is, what moves Egypt are only its interests. We are looking for the best technical, financial and political offer. We originally reject the policy of dealing with China in trade exchanges. Why does Egypt import products from China worth $17 billion in exchange for Egyptian exports of $3 billion? Things here are not measured by the level of friendship, but by the amount of benefit. Egypt rejected Chinese loans because of China's policy of seizing the state's infrastructure and assets in exchange for Chinese debts, i.e. colonialism in a new way, even African countries. I received requests for airport projects in African countries that were rejected by Chinese, French and American companies, and the rejection is for the Chinese because of their poor performance in infrastructure projects. We understand well each country and what it offers and what it targets. Some are naive. The Chinese are working well. Europe wants to pump 300 billion into Africa to confront the Chinese model, including navigational linkage projects between the Nile Basin countries, a railway network, a network of information cables and the Internet parallel to the navigation line. Europe and America are seeking financing to compete with the Chinese presence in Ethiopia, which China seized with loans. Egypt does not compete with anyone or want to enter into a conflict, but rather seeks its interests. China only sees its interests in disturbing Egypt by financing the Ethiopian GERD Dam for countries like Ethiopia that do not respect any international laws for river waters, and because China itself built dams and seized the waters of international rivers without resorting to international river law. Some limit the matter to fighting the fifth generation. The issue is much bigger because it is a package of products that may include A training aircraft, a transport aircraft, and a temporary deal for a fourth-generation fighter to fill a gap and ammunition. Whoever provides Egypt with its requirements with the best specifications and the best price without political conditions, Egypt will deal with him. Egypt bought the Rafale fighters at a high price because they are without political conditions. That is, Egypt's independence is more important than anything else because some of the little ones think that they are doing us a favor or are arrogant to us or think that they will impose conditions. As human relations, we do not antagonize anyone, so whoever treats us with friendship, we accept and treat them in the same way.

 

[ety]

View attachment 57860

This depends on the requirements of the Egyptian Air Force. I am not the decision maker. According to the published news, whether before the visit or the Tactical Reports from two years ago, and the published news about the visit, we only present a vision for that. The advantages that both parties can benefit from. The mockery of some led to ignoring their presence and putting each in its true size. I myself do not like the Chinese product, which has a reputation for always being poor, and I do not prefer the Turkish product as a result of Turkey's colonial and hostile policy and Turkey's desire to seize the wealth of peoples. We are looking for independence, dealing as equals, and achieving the greatest benefits in exchange for value for money. We criticize the Egyptian leadership because it is not interested in industry and production sectors. Simply put, we have those who are capable of creativity and we are not imitators or thieves of countries' patents, but those worse than us are leading us. Therefore, our situation is not good. If we want to buy equipment from any country, you think that they will control us and impose their conditions on us, even in traditional trade. Two months ago, the Russians raised the price of wheat supplies to Egypt to $265 as a form of pressure. On Egypt, Egypt refused to buy Russian wheat and obtained it from Romania, Bulgaria and Ukraine at a price less than $27. When the Russians found themselves losing the market, they returned to provide wheat at competitive prices to other countries. Some do not understand that no one controls us and we implement our wills according to our interests. If an agreement with China is not reached, we will not worry because there are alternatives such as South Korea. The negotiations with China may originally have been to force South Korea to reduce prices, especially since South Korea decided to develop a 25,000-pound-ton engine instead of the American GE F-414 engines. That is, what moves Egypt are only its interests. We are looking for the best technical, financial and political offer. We originally reject the policy of dealing with China in trade exchanges. Why does Egypt import products from China worth $17 billion in exchange for Egyptian exports of $3 billion? Things here are not measured by the level of friendship, but by the amount of benefit. Egypt rejected Chinese loans because of China's policy of seizing the state's infrastructure and assets in exchange for Chinese debts, i.e. colonialism in a new way, even African countries. I received requests for airport projects in African countries that were rejected by Chinese, French and American companies, and the rejection is for the Chinese because of their poor performance in infrastructure projects. We understand well each country and what it offers and what it targets. Some are naive. The Chinese are working well. Europe wants to pump 300 billion into Africa to confront the Chinese model, including navigational linkage projects between the Nile Basin countries, a railway network, a network of information cables and the Internet parallel to the navigation line. Europe and America are seeking financing to compete with the Chinese presence in Ethiopia, which China seized with loans. Egypt does not compete with anyone or want to enter into a conflict, but rather seeks its interests. China only sees its interests in disturbing Egypt by financing the Ethiopian GERD Dam for countries like Ethiopia that do not respect any international laws for river waters, and because China itself built dams and seized the waters of international rivers without resorting to international river law. Some limit the matter to fighting the fifth generation. The issue is much bigger because it is a package of products that may include A training aircraft, a transport aircraft, and a temporary deal for a fourth-generation fighter to fill a gap and ammunition. Whoever provides Egypt with its requirements with the best specifications and the best price without political conditions, Egypt will deal with him. Egypt bought the Rafale fighters at a high price because they are without political conditions. That is, Egypt's independence is more important than anything else because some of the little ones think that they are doing us a favor or are arrogant to us or think that they will impose conditions. As human relations, we do not antagonize anyone, so whoever treats us with friendship, we accept and treat them in the same way.
View attachment 57863

Lol, when is the last time Egypt bought any significant weapons from China so it's valid for you to have such bad impressions of Chinese arms in general, including such fighters as JF-17 that is basically reported bad by Indian media ? Aside, Egypt is giving contracts to Chinese companies to build infra in its new capital. IF China is so evil and Chinese products are so poor to your country, then don't deal with China, go buy and do business with EU and America.

"the Russians raised the price of wheat supplies to Egypt to $265 as a form of pressure. On Egypt, Egypt refused to buy Russian wheat and obtained it from Romania, Bulgaria and Ukraine at a price less than $27." Really ? Someone must be really out his mind.

Nobody owes somebody automatically in this world.

 

[zhanlong]

lol

you have no faking cleu what you are talking about, thats when people who have no technically background. China is far from equal engine technology with western world, give them another 20 years. They started with stupid mindset with ther WS-15 engine. they tried to copy and that did cost them much time.

You should write about patatoes and tomates and not weapons.

Sorry, Turkish friend. I don't understand why the Turks are so confused about Egypt buying the J-31? When Turkey was in despair. Turkey also wants to buy the Chinese JF-17, Isn't it?

Turkey’s Fighter Jet Dilemma: Exploring China’s JF-17 Thunder Amidst NATO Setbacks

According to a December 18 report from the Russian "Independent," cited by "Reference News," the Turkish military is exploring the possibility of acquiring the JF-17 Thunder fighter jet (or FC-1 "Xiaolong") jointly manufactured by China Aviation Industry Corporation (AVIC) and Pakistan...

www.china-arms.com

Turkey wants the J-10C, too.

Chinese fighter J-10C is a contender to replace the American F-16

bulgarianmilitary.com

Turkey to Drop Plans For F-16s: Chinese J-10C Fighters Hinted as Choice to Modernise Fleet

A member of the Turkish Presidency’s Security and Foreign Policies Council, Cagri Erhan, has announced that the country is expected to drop its requests to acquire

militarywatchmagazine.com

If Turkish friends like it, I can find the link that Turkey wants to buy WS-10 engine.

Before Turkey copy F-22, don't forget that Turkey is trying to get Chinese technology through Pakistan.

And according to Taiwan News. F-16V engine life just 200 hours. When it faces an opponent of the level of the PLAAF (24/7, high-intensity, high-tech, fully mounted adversarial). This is the true life of a Western engine.

F-16V每飛行200小時須週期檢查 全機拆卸、18天歷經13關 | 政治 | 中央社 CNA

共機頻擾台海空域，F-16V戰機守護空防角色吃重。為確保妥善率，F-16V每飛行200小時就必須進站，進行近乎整機拆卸，共13個專業項目為期18天的週期檢查，且為確保零件無虞，更需超前布署，提前2年就送審採購相關備料。

www.cna.com.tw

Tip: Taiwan has 260 F-16v, Taiwan Air Force > Turkish Air Force

 

[100%_Guest]

I myself do not like the Chinese product

but but but your are using chinese equipment to fart your BS