Egyptian Armed Forces

[GoMig-21]

EDIT: Correction on post #808 my bad I thought they were L-59s but they're actually L-39s. Few more pics.

Anyone know if they actually ended up in Egypt and used as trainers, or did they end up cancelling the deal for all 30-something aircraft? Because IIRC, there was a major problem with the aircraft and the EAF wanted either repairs or parts replaced or overhauls something serious but I'm not familiar with the whole story. All I know is it was a major problem that created a lot of bad blood and that one busted up airplane was just one of several accidents that had a lot to do with that problem. Anyone knows the story pls do share.

 

[Ghostkiller]

According to the YouTube channel author:
Notice the "Wagon-Wheel Effect" on the propellers.

Jun 12, 2024 FLUGHAFEN ZÜRICH
Plane Spotting at Zurich Airport showing the Egypt Air Force CASA C 295M landing on runway 14 and started via runway 28. This aircraft is a very rare and special visitor at Zurich and came for the Ukraine Conference at Bürgenstock.

I really love this aircraft hahaha. It is design is amazing

 

[The SC]

Joint naval exercises between Russia and Egypt in the Mediterranean Sea

 

[The SC]

 

[GoMig-21]

Joint naval exercises between Russia and Egypt in the Mediterranean Sea

First time we see the A-200EN in action, or at least being deployed in an exercise and who better to work with than our Russian bros from another moes!?

And what a beast of a frigate that is, and 4 of them is a decent number for the EN. Those are the type that make get you addicted like with drugs, you want more & more gimme more, as in another 10 of them and 10 more Bergamini FREMMs plus 10 more Aquitaine FREMMs and so on!

And that black, bottom paint they've put on the side of the hull to protect & cover up the soot stains from the engine exhausts at startups is starting to grow on me a little. At first, I didn't like it because it changed the continuity appearance of the ship. Kinda disturbed it if you will. But the more I look at it the more it grows on me because it's unique to the EN.

This,

Compared to this.

 

[Sami_1]

During the past week, more than one article was about Air Force aircraft. Eastern armament systems remain. There is no desire to announce what is in service. Egypt always prefers new equipment to upgrading old equipment. The same applies. New aircraft ammunition is better than patching up old fighters with compatible ammunition. There remains competition between Russian aircraft. If their fighters are superior in the most modern radar systems to the Russians, the Indian side also compensates for such radars by integrating Indian radars on them, and the same applies even by providing spare parts and additional engines for previous Russian fighter deals.

Whoever will meet the Egyptian requirements in terms of air force for fighters and performance will be the winner between the Chinese and Russian versions in light of the decline in the chances of Western fighters with the outbreak of war in Gaza, because west fears that the situation in Egypt will change and Israel will become in danger.

Tactical fighters differ from the non-heavy fighters that Egypt needs, so the purchases of tactical fighters have nothing to do with fighters controlling the airspace.

Egypt has no choice but to buy J-10C from China, at least 27 and at most 58​

2024-06-16 15:09

With the rapid development of China's equipment technology, a batch of advanced equipment and China's fighter aircraft technology have entered the world's advanced level. The latest fighter jet J-10C exported by China has also been successfully exported to Pakistan.

The two J-10CE squadrons procured by Pakistan have been delivered in just about one and a half years, and the feedback from the Pakistan Air Force is very satisfactory.

Perhaps it is also thanks to the good feedback from Pakistan that some other countries are also very interested in the J-10C, such as Turkey and Egypt, both in the Middle East.




Earlier, there was news in Turkey that it intends to purchase a batch of J-10Cs to supplement its existing fleet, but it has not yet been implemented. However, just a few days ago, the US media revealed that Egypt, another big country in the Middle East, may have offered an olive branch to China and asked to buy J-10C fighter jet

According to recent news from the US media "Tactical Report", Egypt is in contact with China to discuss the possibility of introducing J-10C fighter jets. The US media stated that the contact between the two parties has already begun at the end of 2022. Egypt is trying to obtain the J-10C to update its existing fleet.

In fact, the Egyptian Air Force is now facing the problem of retiring old fighters and urgently needing new fighters. The existing Mirage-5 and Mirage-2000 of the Egyptian Air Force have both exceeded their service life.


Egypt is the first overseas user of legal Mirage-2000 fighter jets. As early as 1981, Egypt purchased 20 Mirages for $890 million. These Mirages were delivered in the late 1980s and have been in service for nearly 40 years. There are currently 17 in service.

There are as many as 75 Mirage-5 fighter jets of the Egyptian Air Force in service at the beginning of 2022. This aircraft is a product of the same era as the J-7 fighter jet, and its service time in the Egyptian Air Force has far exceeded its service life. It's time to retire.

In addition, nearly half of the F16 fighter jets in the Egyptian Air Force, more than 100, have served for more than 30 years and have reached the retirement age. There are also more than 100 MiG-21s in service. All major military powers have already retired these fighters.



It can be seen from this that Egypt has an urgent need to update its existing fleet to complete modernization. It is only necessary to update the above three models of MiG-21, Mirage-5 and Mirage-2000. The number is close to 200.

For Egypt, a "big customer", all major arms exporting countries are keeping a close eye on it, and everyone wants to get this opportunity to eat crabs.


It should be said that France is the first country to eat crabs. In 2015, Egypt spent a huge amount of money to introduce 24 Rafales from France, with a total price of 5.2 billion euros!

Then in 2021, Egypt signed an agreement with France to purchase 30 Rafale fighter jets. The order was as high as 3.75 billion US dollars!


Egypt seems to be not satisfied with the French fighters, even after the introduction of 54 Rafales, Egypt also plans to introduce a newer generation of French fighters, namely the F4 fighters that are still in the development stage, which will eventually reduce the fleet size of legal fighters , expanded to about 100 frames.


Of course, it is impossible for Egypt to put all eggs in one cage, and Egypt will also expand its sources of weapons.

However, there are only a handful of countries that can meet the modernization needs of the Egyptian Air Force. It can be said that there are only the United States, Russia and France, plus the potential target China, and there are only four choices.


So in addition to France, Egypt will naturally choose from the other three. For Egypt, the first choice is the United States. This is mainly due to the fact that the Egyptian Air Force itself has more than 200 F16 fighter jets. The number of F16 fighters in Egypt is second only to the US military, Israel and Turkey, ranking fourth. Continue to introduce US-made fighters do not affect logistical support.

In 2010, Egypt and the United States reached an agreement to introduce 20 improved F-16C/D Block52s, but the order did not go smoothly. It was interrupted for 4 years, and the first batch of 4 were not delivered until 2014. In 2016 Annual delivery completed.

Then in 2019, Egypt sought to purchase more advanced F35 stealth fighters from the United States, but was ultimately rejected by the United States. As a matter of fact, as long as there is Israel, as long as the Middle East region including Israel does not achieve great unity, Egypt will never be able to obtain the F35.

As for importing from Russia, it is actually unrealistic. Egypt also thought about importing from Russia. For example, in 2019, Egypt reached an agreement with Russia to spend 2 billion US dollars to import 24 Su-35 fighter jets. However, everyone knows that the United States finally intervened. Countering the Enemy Act,"blocking the Egyptian-Russian deal.

Even though Russia has already produced half of the Su-35, even if the Su-35 is already in the flight test stage before delivery, Egypt finally canceled the order, and the Su-35 that has been produced can only be placed in the Komsomolsk Aircraft Factory on the tarmac.

This also means that Egypt's plan to obtain the latest generation of modern fighter jets from Russia has failed. Compared with the United States, Egypt is a "small arm", which cannot twist its thighs. If Egypt does not listen to the advice of the United States and resolutely introduces Russian-made fighter jets, then there is no doubt that the United States will be merciless and sanction Egypt. It is still clear what is important to Egypt.

Therefore, another option for Egypt to diversify its weapons sources is China.


For now, the fighter jets designed and manufactured by China are not inferior to the fighter jets of the United States, Russia and France. On the contrary, the technical level of Chinese fighter jets is already in a leading position. In terms of airborne radar and missiles, it is better than the above three Even better.

Now, China's main export is the J-10C fighter jet. This fighter jet has been served in large quantities in the People's Liberation Army series, and its reliability has been verified. It has also achieved zero breakthroughs in exports. Pakistan has introduced two squadrons in one go. The Pakistani army has proved in use that the J-10C can effectively suppress the Rafale fighter.



It is entirely feasible for Egypt to introduce J-10C.


The average unit price of the J-10CE obtained by Pakistan is only 50 million US dollars, while the unit price of the legal Rafale fighter jet introduced by Egypt is as high as 150 million US dollars. One Rafale is equal to three J-10Cs. There is no more cost-effective option than this.





The US media believes that the current shortage of fighter jets in the Egyptian Air Force is at least between 27 and 58. Because the J-10C is an excellent multi-purpose fighter, one can stand up to three or four Mirage-5, Mirage-2000 and MiG-21, and there is no need to replace it in a 1:1 quantity.

In any case, even if it is to introduce 27 aircraft, this is not a small number. If an agreement can be finally finalized, it will be of great benefit to expanding the international influence of the J-10C. Taking the lead, the J-10C export road will inevitably be smoother.


And when the development of the J-35 is completed, Egypt's dream of a stealth fighter will also be realized.



https://min.news/en/military/e861d90e9718b5623746cf069c2f78c8.html

 

[GoMig-21]

What the hell is a "legal" Rafale? I suppose it's the opposite of an "illegal" Rafale lol. But what the hell does it mean? Those damn Chinese lol.

The even funnier one is "eating crabs" WTF? lmaaaooooo. Eat crabs, biatchas! lol.

J-10C is definitely the cheaper alternative to the Rafale or Eurofighter Typhoon, without a doubt. Question is, is it really as good? Or even comparable? If it's $50 million a pop and we obviously got taken to the cleaners when we paid $250 million per Rafale in the first go-around and are paying $175 million per Rafale for this second batch, then it's a no-brainer to go with the J-10C. But is there another reason for the disparity in price, as in quality? Potency? Advanced technolgoy? Better systems? Better engines? What about weapons? Can we compare MICA technology to PL technology? Do we even have enough information to make such a determination?

I suppose if they've been talking about buying J-10Cs since 2022, and there's all these stories about signing a domestic license production of the PL-15 in Egypt, the latter wouldn't make much sense unless there were plans to bring in the J-10C unless their goal was to arm the MiG-29Ms with the PL-15. I guess like anything else, we'll have to wait and see.

In the meantime, aside from the obvious cost difference, is the J-10C equally or as good as the Rafale?

I have a little bit of a problem with this, right here:

The Pakistani army has proved in use that the J-10C can effectively suppress the Rafale fighter.

Anyone know where the Chinese who wrote this article got this information from? Would love to know more about this.

 

[GoMig-21]

Cairo, Beijing negotiate a transfer of 12 J-10 Firebird fighters.​

By Boyko Nikolov on May 26, 2023
Subscribe to Google News

Egypt may soon increase its air force inventory if the information is confirmed that Cairo and Beijing are negotiating the sale of 12 Chengdu J-10 Vigorous Dragon [NATO reporting name: Firebird]. According to sources, at the upcoming Langkawi exhibition in Malaysia, senior military personnel from the Cairo Ministry of Defense will hold talks with representatives of the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group.

Photo credit: Creative Commons

This information comes from Tactical Report. The report mentions that Egypt is interested in acquiring 12 fighters of this model. BulgarianMilitary.com recalls that this is a medium-weight multirole aircraft. Tactical Report cited a source but did not name him or his nationality.

According to the source, Egypt is interested in acquiring the J-10C version. It can be said that this is the relatively latest version of this Chinese aircraft. It is the upgraded version of the J-10B and comes with a new AESA radar as well as with imaging infrared seeker [IIR] PL-10. The power unit of the J-10C consists of a turbofan Shenyang WS-10 engine providing 120–140 kilonewtons of thrust.

Egyptian Air Force​

Currently, the backbone of the Egyptian Air Force is made up primarily of Soviet MiG-29s and French Dassault Rafales. Let us remind you that Egypt had to acquire the Russian Su-35 Flanker-E. However, the deal fell through. Officially, Egypt claims that Russia did not comply with production and delivery conditions. Unofficially, the US is said to have threatened Egypt with economic sanctions under the CAATSA law.

Photo credit: Wautom

It should be noted that Cairo has 240 F-16 Fighting Falcon fighters of which 50 C/D are used as training and training for new pilots. However, these fighters have not been updated in years. Something like the situation with the Turkish F-16s, but from much earlier – from the 90s of the last century. After Egypt chose to buy Russian weapons, such as aircraft and air defense systems, the US refused to upgrade Egypt’s F-16s.

It is for these two reasons that logic is sought in Egypt’s intentions to acquire Chinese fighters. They would replace the undelivered Su-35s already going to Iran, as well as offset, at least somewhat, the aging F-16 fleet.

Turning to China may be a new page in the history of the Egyptian Air Force. The war in Ukraine practically stopped deliveries from Moscow to Cairo. However, Egypt does not want to be dependent on a war in which it does not participate, so China is an opportunity that it would not miss.

Ukraine war may play a role​

When it comes to the war in Ukraine, Egypt may find itself in a very good position to upgrade its F-16s. Egypt is said to be ready to supply Ukraine with an unlimited amount of ammunition, both for Soviet anti-aircraft missile systems and Abrams tanks, since Egypt is the largest producer of Abrams after the United States. If this comes to pass under pressure from Washington, at some point the US may decide to reopen the door to Cairo and thus allow the Egyptian F-16s to be upgraded. Again – same as with Turkey.

Photo credit: DefenseTurk

The choice of the J-10C is not accidental. Several reports suggest that it is currently the most powerful single-engine fighter in the world. And this plane gradually began to gain more and more popularity. However, for now, it is only seen as a possibility among potential customers, and nothing has been confirmed. If Egypt buys the 12 fighters, the country will become the third operator, after China and Pakistan, to operate this Vigorous Dragon.

J-10C Vigorous Dragon​

The J-10C is currently only available as a single-seater. Its length is approximately 17 meters. Its maximum takeoff weight is about 19,000 kg. The aircraft has a maximum range of 1,850 km, and the maximum flight speed can reach Mach 1.8. The aircraft can fly at a maximum altitude of 18,000 meters.

The J-10C is armed with one Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-23 machine gun for close air combat or low-flying raids. There are 11 hardpoints in total [6 x under-wing, 2 x under-intake, and 3 x under-fuselage]. The aircraft can carry a large range of weapons, such as air-to-air missiles, air-to-ground missiles, anti-ship missiles, laser-guided bombs, glide bombs, satellite-guided bombs and unguided bombs.

Source.

This is the partial Tactical Report from May, 2022.

 

[Sami_1]

What the hell is a "legal" Rafale? I suppose it's the opposite of an "illegal" Rafale lol. But what the hell does it mean? Those damn Chinese lol.

The even funnier one is "eating crabs" WTF? lmaaaooooo. Eat crabs, biatchas! lol.

J-10C is definitely the cheaper alternative to the Rafale or Eurofighter Typhoon, without a doubt. Question is, is it really as good? Or even comparable? If it's $50 million a pop and we obviously got taken to the cleaners when we paid $250 million per Rafale in the first go-around and are paying $175 million per Rafale for this second batch, then it's a no-brainer to go with the J-10C. But is there another reason for the disparity in price, as in quality? Potency? Advanced technolgoy? Better systems? Better engines? What about weapons? Can we compare MICA technology to PL technology? Do we even have enough information to make such a determination?

I suppose if they've been talking about buying J-10Cs since 2022, and there's all these stories about signing a domestic license production of the PL-15 in Egypt, the latter wouldn't make much sense unless there were plans to bring in the J-10C unless their goal was to arm the MiG-29Ms with the PL-15. I guess like anything else, we'll have to wait and see.

In the meantime, aside from the obvious cost difference, is the J-10C equally or as good as the Rafale?

I have a little bit of a problem with this, right here:



Anyone know where the Chinese who wrote this article got this information from? Would love to know more about this.

The writer of the article makes a point of view
By allocating and reducing the cost of fighters, matters have other considerations
How much does it cost to achieve goals and perform against this cost?

There is a similarity in performance of the fighters, but this is due to the shorter lifespan of the Chinese fighter and lower reliability
The Chinese and Pakistanis see their aircraft as better than the Rafale and better than the Typhoon. It is still air clashes that truly determine this.
But also the differences in performance are not the same as the price differences
Egypt wants the Chinese, like the Russians, to develop equipment to the level it wants for Egypt to be able to carry out the tasks assigned to the fighters, so that the technical difference is limited, and to be successfully employed within the Egyptian combat system. Currently, the fighters do not fight alone, but rather within combat systems, that is, squadrons of fighters alongside squadrons of drones and aircraft. Electronic warfare, early warning, and disguise, if necessary. Therefore, covering the gaps in capabilities depends on the entire combat system and the positioning of fighters inside or outside the airspace.
Egypt fully understands the importance of aerial munitions. Egypt will not rely on MICA METEOR, not even on the PL-15E alone, and the F-16 fighters are not decapitated.
So why does Egypt want J-10CE fighters, simply to be integrated with the MIG-29M, RAFALE, and SU-35 fighters? There are quantitative needs for the fighters.

Israel receives 75 F-35 and 50 F-15EX, in addition to the remaining
400 F-16,
200 F-15
Since the seventies, half of which have been out of service, and the newer fighters make up for the shortfall in the departure of some fighters from service, in addition to the fact that in the event of war, Egypt will not find a country that provides it with fighters.
Coming to another point, there is a failure in implementing contracts or offers that did not reach reality, such as the Typhoon and the F-15, and even a delay in the entry of UCAV aircraft with a payload of 2 tons.

All of this requires quick compensation, so Egypt’s acquisition of J-10CE fighters equivalent to the price of the FA-50 aircraft delayed the contracting.

Third, Chinese financial facilities, even if the Chinese do not meet Egyptian demands in the field of military manufacturing or even specifications is what hinders contracts with China.

 

[xbat]

Earlier, there was news in Turkey that it intends to purchase a batch of J-10Cs to supplement its existing fleet, but it has not yet been implemented.

there is no such thing in Turkish media, i see only chineese troll propaganda on internet.

 

[GoMig-21]

there is no such thing in Turkish media, i see only chineese troll propaganda on internet.

I thought that was a bit strange, too. It's not like Türkiye has to be fiscally conscious so it's looking for a cost-effective solution to increase the numbers of its modern fighters like Egypt is. That's why the Eurofighter was a much more realistic consideration for the TuAF, not to mention the commonality of all systems, from data links to weapons & integration.

 

[Sami_1]

there is no such thing in Turkish media, i see only chineese troll propaganda on internet.

https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2023/...-is-a-contender-to-replace-the-american-f-16/

The J-10 aircraft was one of Turkey's options until the outbreak of the Russian-Ukrainian war after the settlements of new countries joining NATO opened the door. The Turks and Americans agreed to supply Turkey with 40 F-16 fighters and develop 79 others at a very high cost of $ 23 billion. The number remains equivalent to buying 150 new Rafale or Euro fighter Typhoon fighters with a full life and higher capabilities than even the latest versions of the F-16.

Turkey to Drop Plans For F-16s: Chinese J-10C Fighters Hinted as Choice to Modernise Fleet

A member of the Turkish Presidency’s Security and Foreign Policies Council, Cagri Erhan, has announced that the country is expected to drop its requests to acquire

militarywatchmagazine.com

 

[The SC]

Russia's nuclear fleet is stationed on Egyptian shores and challenges the Americans to hand over IRIS-T missiles to Egypt

 

[GoMig-21]

The writer of the article makes a point of view
By allocating and reducing the cost of fighters, matters have other considerations
How much does it cost to achieve goals and perform against this cost?

There is a similarity in performance of the fighters, but this is due to the shorter lifespan of the Chinese fighter and lower reliability
The Chinese and Pakistanis see their aircraft as better than the Rafale and better than the Typhoon. It is still air clashes that truly determine this.
But also the differences in performance are not the same as the price differences

And THIS is exactly what I have a problem with. Not that the J-10C is not good, all published material including the most technically detailed info out there supports it being a very good aircraft. My problem is with those who claim it's as good as, if not better than the Rafale. I'm leaving the Typhoon out for now since the comparison was made by several members on this forum not only equating the J-10C to the Rafale, but in some instances suggesting it's even BETTER! So no need to add the Typhoon for now.

Now my degree is not in economics, but my business is all about economics and understanding cost/value relationships and so when I see something that is sold at $150 million (forget about the fact that the first 24 Rafales Egypt bought came out to $250 million apiece, a good percentage of that is initial purchase fees such as extensive startup training, logistics setup, simulators, weapons and long term support and so much more which isn't required so much in the subsequent order(s). So the 2nd batch Egypt is buying the Rafale @ $150 million so we'll go with that.

Then you have the cost of the J-10C where one sources claims it to be $28 million and another between $40 million & $65 million per aircraft. Let's assume just for the hell of it to be sure we're not cheating the J-10 in any way we'll go with $75 million just to play it safe and no one can bitch & complain.

Now............how the hell would it be possible in any realm of the living or even in an alternate reality could an aircraft valued (and that word is important) at half of the other ($75 million) be nearly as good as one that is double that price @ $150 million?! let alone be told it's even better?!

That, is what I have a problem with and what I would really, really, really like to know.

 

[The SC]

And THIS is exactly what I have a problem with. Not that the J-10C is not good, all published material including the most technically detailed info out there supports it being a very good aircraft. My problem is with those who claim it's as good as, if not better than the Rafale. I'm leaving the Typhoon out for now since the comparison was made by several members on this forum not only equating the J-10C to the Rafale, but in some instances suggesting it's even BETTER! So no need to add the Typhoon for now.

Now my degree is not in economics, but my business is all about economics and understanding cost/value relationships and so when I see something that is sold at $150 million (forget about the fact that the first 24 Rafales Egypt bought came out to $250 million apiece, a good percentage of that is initial purchase fees such as extensive startup training, logistics setup, simulators, weapons and long term support and so much more which isn't required so much in the subsequent order(s). So the 2nd batch Egypt is buying the Rafale @ $150 million so we'll go with that.

Then you have the cost of the J-10C where one sources claims it to be $28 million and another between $40 million & $65 million per aircraft. Let's assume just for the hell of it to be sure we're not cheating the J-10 in any way we'll go with $75 million just to play it safe and no one can bitch & complain.

Now............how the hell would it be possible in any realm of the living or even in an alternate reality could an aircraft valued (and that word is important) at half of the other ($75 million) be nearly as good as one that is double that price @ $150 million?! let alone be told it's even better?!

That, is what I have a problem with and what I would really, really, really like to know.

The labor cost is much less.. and it is a very good one engine fighter with nice specs.. but It is not sure it can be the equivalent of the twin engine Rafale or Typhoon..Technology wise it is not the top in Chinese fighter program like the stealth ones..