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Five decades after Pakistan’s recognition of Bangladesh

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Joe Shearer

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What I've realised with elections is people vote for things that matter to them.
That was a nice, thoughtful note, and I, ah, thought about it a bit before responding.
Yes, people do vote for things that matter to them. Where I differ from that general and wholly unexceptionable statement, however, is this: what people might think naturally, from their social and economic background, and what people might be induced to think are rather different propositions.
The broad difference is obvious, and built into the sentence itself; what is interesting is the idea that people might be induced to think. We are familiar with that, of course, and the chances are that most of us have used it as a shield or as a sword, as the occasion demanded. On the one hand, if people are induced to think in ways that we/I deprecate, obviously it will seem to me, and I will project it to the world, as a cynical manipulation of people's minds. On the other, if I get to do the inducing, it is then a natural education of people away from superstition, and towards a scientific temperament, meaning a discriminating temperament, that can only bring peace and harmony to a disturbed society.
I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE with BJP and their communal agenda and the damage its caused to India's social fabric.
Five more years, and some pessimists think it might even be ten more. What horrific crimes they will commit by then remains to be imagined.
Having said that, if I was in India I'd also not want my future generations to have less opportunity and stunted growth in Nehru's socialist India.
This is something that we have actually discussed threadbare on a private discussion group, insaniyat, where two others who are members of PDF are also members, as I am. The final outcome was, not considering the others, merely the three of us with membership in both places, two is to one. Two of us were, on balance, supportive of Nehru; the third was, and continues to be, almost obsessively against Nehru.

Those who disagreed with the common imagery linked to Nehru had much to say about India in the 40s and 50s, even the 60s, and felt that in such a capital-deficit state, that was politically recovering from the rule of a colonial master, there was no question of setting up, or of encouraging native business. Ashok Mody's criticism of both the Congress under Nehru and the BJP under Modi is reasonable, but on the question of Nehru's resorting to communist and socialist methods, is far too richly embellished with wishful economic analysis.

There was not enough livestock for milk for all babies, and that continues even today.. not enough chicken to go around, grain was enough but fell short if the monsoon failed. We needed a foundation on which to built, and that is what Nehru gave us.
I'd personally vote for NOTA and if I HAD TO choose from the mainstream parties, I'd probably choose BJP. Because I personally think they're better for the economy (from whats been portrayed in the media so far anyway). While I absolutely hate their communal agenda, the thing that's gonna affect me personally is the economy, growth and better opportunities for the future generations.
The facts are against them.
What is mainstream about Modi and Trump?

Modi is a murderous thug.
And Trump is a fascist who tried to overthrow the government.

Gazans are living in hell - no none knows how they will behave if they were kept in an open air prison and were shot at by Israeli settlers on a daily basis.

Whereas Americans and Indians have zero excuse to vote for fascists!

And using the vote for Obama to justify voting for Trump is hilarious. Yes, and loads of racists have black friends as well.

Where did you learn to debate, dude?!!

You are hilarious!
Calm down, buddy.
You have a point. When you start dissing the other guy, you distract attention.
 
Last edited:
Jan 7, 2024
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That was a nice, thoughtful note, and I, ah, thought about it a bit before responding.
Yes, people do vote for things that matter to them. Where I differ from that general and wholly unexceptionable statement, however, is this: what people might think naturally, from their social and economic background, and what people might be induced to think are rather different propositions.
The broad difference is obvious, and built into the sentence itself; what is interesting is the idea that people might be induced to think. We are familiar with that, of course, and the chances are that most of us have used it as a shield or as a sword, as the occasion demanded. On the one hand, if people are induced to think in ways that we/I deprecate, obviously it will seem to me, and I will project it to the world, as a cynical manipulation of people's minds. On the other, if I get to do the inducing, it is then a natural education of people away from superstition, and towards a scientific temperament, meaning a discriminating temperament, that can only bring peace and harmony to a disturbed society.

Five more years, and some pessimists think it might even be ten more. What horrific crimes they will commit by then remains to be imagined.

This is something that we have actually discussed threadbare on a private discussion group, insaniyat, where two others who are members of PDF are also members, as I am. The final outcome was, not considering the others, merely the three of us with membership in both places, two is to one. Two of us were, on balance, supportive of Nehru; the third was, and continues to be, almost obsessively against Nehru.

Those who disagreed with the common imagery linked to Nehru had much to say about India in the 40s and 50s, even the 60s, and felt that in such a capital-deficit state, that was politically recovering from the rule of a colonial master, there was no question of setting up, or of encouraging native business. Ashok Mody's criticism of both the Congress under Nehru and the BJP under Modi is reasonable, but on the question of Nehru's resorting to communist and socialist methods, is far too richly embellished with wishful economic analysis.

There was not enough livestock for milk for all babies, and that continues even today.. not enough chicken to go around, grain was enough but fell short if the monsoon failed. We needed a foundation on which to built, and that is what Nehru gave us.

The facts are against them.

Calm down, buddy.
You have a point. When you start dissing the other guy, you distract attention.

It’s really hard to debate with people who are one eyed.

You need to be able to see both sides to be a productive debater.

In BD, we have the same hero worship and demonising of Mujib.

The partisans will simply not accept the following,

“Mujib was a patriotic and well meaning leader but absolutely incompetent administrator”

I guess, you probably think the same of Nehru?

Anyway, Bangladeshis have rejected their version of BJP.

I very much doubt Indians will reject BJP.

Unfortunately, unlike Bangladeshi Muslims, Indian Hindus are prepared to starve to get one over their sizeable Muslim minority.

Which is very similar to Trump voters - they are willing to starve in order to own the libs.

They Will blatantly lie about their own economic circumstances to justify things. E.g. infamous Joe the Plumber.
 

War Lord

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Not Joe Shearer....Joe the Plumber....


:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher (/ˈwɜːrzəlbɑːkər/ WUR-zəl-bah-kər; December 3, 1973 – August 27, 2023), commonly known as "Joe the Plumber", was an American conservative activist and commentator. He gained national attention during the 2008 U.S. presidential campaign season when, during a videotaped campaign stop in Ohio by Democratic nominee Barack Obama, Wurzelbacher raised concerns that Obama's tax policy would increase taxes on small business owners. Wurzelbacher was a member of the Republican Party.

After he expressed to Senator Obama that he was interested in purchasing a small plumbing business, Wurzelbacher was given the moniker "Joe the Plumber" by the McCain–Palin campaign. The campaign brought him in to make several appearances in campaign events in Ohio and McCain often referenced "Joe the Plumber" in campaign speeches and in the final presidential debate, as a metaphor for middle-class Americans.[1][2]
 

Joe Shearer

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@BananaRepublic

Kola bhai,

Indian Hindus are prepared to starve

Who told you that? In fact most Indians, Hindus or otherwise, dont starve anymore thanks to the 5kg free grain that the Modi govt provides. This scheme was there earlier also, but it has been transparently and efficiently enforced only by the Modi govt

Regards
What he forgets to mention is the vast number driven below the poverty line during Modi's ten years, and the increased need for a free rice hand-out for these increased numbers of poor.
 

War Lord

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The guy's a weirdo.

Where do these Murricans bob out of? All convinced they know all about socialism and capitalism, and ignorant as hell?

We give them free space to talk because otherwise they'll riot and we don't want that. 😂
 

SoulSpokesman

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Dec 22, 2023
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@Joe Shearer

Dada,

What he forgets to mention is the vast number driven below the poverty line during Modi's ten years

I do not forward fake news. Poverty has declined under the Modi regime. UNDP MDPI report bears that out.


In 2005/2006, about 645 million people were in multidimensional poverty in India. The number declined to about 370 million by 2015/2016 and 230 million in 2019.

Average reduction of 27 million pa in 2006-16, 47 million pa in 2016-19

This was discussed in Insaniyat, repeating it for your and other reader's benefit

Regards
 

Joe Shearer

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@Joe Shearer

Dada,

What he forgets to mention is the vast number driven below the poverty line during Modi's ten years

I do not forward fake news. Poverty has declined under the Modi regime. UNDP MDPI report bears that out.


In 2005/2006, about 645 million people were in multidimensional poverty in India. The number declined to about 370 million by 2015/2016 and 230 million in 2019.

Average reduction of 27 million pa in 2006-16, 47 million pa in 2016-19

This was discussed in Insaniyat, repeating it for your and other reader's benefit

Regards
As far as I remember, the conclusion was that there was a huge increase in the numbers below the poverty line, and that the only contradictions were from third-party accounts depending entirely on the now suspect GoI data.
 
Jan 7, 2024
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As far as I remember, the conclusion was that there was a huge increase in the numbers below the poverty line, and that the only contradictions were from third-party accounts depending entirely on the now suspect GoI data.

Both Joe S and Soul S are correct.

Modi has increased underlying poverty through his big business reforms e.g. enabling big businesses to undercut mom and pop shops and abolition of price guarantees for farmers.

However, Modi has mitigated this through direct handouts to the poor.

However, this level of direct transfer is not sustainable given the population growth and stagnation in jobs growth.

India is running a massive deficit despite extremely healthy economic growth.

As we saw during covid - when economy stalls - that level of direct transfer becomes unviable and millions starve.

When you run massive deficits during healthy growth - god help you when economy stalls!!
 

Joe Shearer

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Apr 19, 2009
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Modi has increased underlying poverty through his big business reforms e.g. enabling big businesses to undercut mom and pop shops and abolition of price guarantees for farmers.

However, Modi has mitigated this through direct handouts to the poor.
That is what I said, except I didn't say mitigated.
When a government acts as an enemy to the People it governs, it becomes a vulture feeding on the livers of the living.
 
Jan 7, 2024
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The guy's a weirdo.

Where do these Murricans bob out of? All convinced they know all about socialism and capitalism, and ignorant as hell?

Joe the plumber pretended to be entrepreneurial middle class man - weighed down by high taxes.

In really he was a downscale white living hand to mouth. And really needed Obamacare.

Of course, owning the libs was much more important than free healthcare.
 
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