Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[jauk]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1760316342237020358

Despite Turkey’s fighter jet having substantial key foreign parts and assistance (engines, largest 3D titanium laser printer in world, etc) it really is disappointing after 25 years playing around with F-5 and the disaster propaganda project that was F-313 we are no where close to an actual domestic fighter jet line.

Even with foreign assistance, this is a big accomplishment to get a fighter jet to maiden flight so quickly. Turkey still has a long journey ahead, but so far they have hit key milestones in their Air Force with their UCAV fighter jet and now this 5th gen fighter.

@jauk @Hack-Hook

Air Force has been the biggest disappointment for Iranian armed services. From drones (non-IRGC) to munitions to fighter/trainer projects

You and many here probably know my position. I don’t believe Iran should invest in ANY conventional Air Force.

Regardless, the ‘Turkish’ fighter will be as effective as their Bayraghdars. Little to zero.

I simply believe the IRI has intentionally ignored a conventional AF.

The SU-35s and the other domestic items you mentioned either fill a temporary gap or serve as test beds.

At the end, even if Iran had developed a ‘x gen’ fighter it would have had to contend with decades of deep experience of opponents—nope, won’t do.

Turkey’s ‘tech’ is clearly infected with foreign parts and, more importantly, retrograde foreign thinking.

Iranian success is apparent all around us from Ukraine to Lebanon to Syria and Yemen. Drones, missiles, mosaic, and asymmetric warfare. Advanced, cost effective and without these useless toys.

 

[Tehrani021]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1760316342237020358

Despite Turkey’s fighter jet having substantial key foreign parts and assistance (engines, largest 3D titanium laser printer in world, etc) it really is disappointing after 25 years playing around with F-5 and the disaster propaganda project that was F-313 we are no where close to an actual domestic fighter jet line.

Even with foreign assistance, this is a big accomplishment to get a fighter jet to maiden flight so quickly. Turkey still has a long journey ahead, but so far they have hit key milestones in their Air Force with their UCAV fighter jet and now this 5th gen fighter.

@jauk @Hack-Hook

Air Force has been the biggest disappointment for Iranian armed services. From drones (non-IRGC) to munitions to fighter/trainer projects

Turkey would never have been able to build jets without foreign parts and Iran would have been further ahead than Turkey had it not been under sanctions or if it had the unrestricted oil sales to fuel the R+D required to build its own fighter. Basically what I'm saying is that's a silly comparison to make.

 

[Flotilla]

Turkey would never have been able to build jets without foreign parts and Iran would have been further ahead than Turkey had it not been under sanctions or if it had the unrestricted oil sales to fuel the R+D required to build its own fighter. Basically what I'm saying is that's a silly comparison to make.

It is not fair to speak about turkish aeronautical industry like this. None of us can tell Turkey has invented the airplane or achieve a milestone in miliary aircraft design. For sure they rely in foreign technology for designing their projects.

But you can be sure South Korea, Japan and other countries does the same. It is much more logical and cheap to buy or ask a license for a foreign engine that designing one from scratch.

If Iran can design and build a turbofan you can be sure it will be with Russian assistance, or the engine will lack trust power or same lifespan that another jet turbine builders.

Nobody doubt that Kowsar and Yassin have been a milestone and a good example of hardworking and resilience of iranian aeronautical industry. But Iran must be more ambitious. And that requires that point called foreign assistance for a modern turbofan; it can be russian or chinese, but Iran need helps at this point. Like everybody. Not only Turkey.

 

[Immortals]

Nobody doubt that Kowsar and Yassin have been a milestone

It was a milestone back in 2005 when the first generation (Saeghe) was unveiled. Not 20 years later.

Since then Iran has made its own space launchers & satellites, improved its BMs to 5M CEP, launched various naval ship designs, built countless advancements in radar and air defense systems, built a new tank (Karrar) and handful of MRAPs designs, built one of the largest drone arsenal in the world with a variety of different models, list goes ON and ON and ON.

Yet here we are talking about airforce

*No domestic engine
*No F313 or it’s Wingman variant
*No mass production of whatever frankstein F-5 variant they are on now (aka Kowsar)
*No decent range Iranian AESA for fighter jets
*No new A2A missile that isn’t a remodel of a previous Shah era A2A
*parallel drone programs that add no value to what Iran already produces and in many cases more inferior than IRGC and Defense Ministry backed drone projects.


The IRIAF wether by design (lack of funding or strategic vision by government officials) or

Spoiler

incompetence has spent 20-30 years severely underperforming.

Fixed for you, IRIAF is the most underfunded branch in all irani army branch and they had to maintain an airforce of legacy circus airplanes

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

Anything is said here, the section which is always the worst on the forum.

Domestic engine: yes
F313: It will eventually come out, no problem
No Iranian AESA at decent range for combat aircraft: Yes!! To be continued....

No new A2A missile which is not a redesign of a previous A2A from the Shah era: It's even better than that, to be continued...

parallel drone programs that add no value to what Iran already produces and in many cases, more inferior to the drone projects supported by the IRGC and the Defense Ministry. : Totally 1000% false To be continued...

No mass production of the Frankstein F-5 variant they are currently on (aka Kowsar): Worst answer of all, it's completely false, it's the opposite: revelations very soon

Long live the IRIAF which has been very surprising for several years, well done to them. We will see excellent announcements in the near future that will shake the certainties of some here who are treading water in their heads.

Their official source Wikipedia! Kowsar: Number built 4
Pathetic ! 9+9+9 = 28 to follow....

 

[mulj]

You and many here probably know my position. I don’t believe Iran should invest in ANY conventional Air Force.

Regardless, the ‘Turkish’ fighter will be as effective as their Bayraghdars. Little to zero.

I simply believe the IRI has intentionally ignored a conventional AF.

The SU-35s and the other domestic items you mentioned either fill a temporary gap or serve as test beds.

At the end, even if Iran had developed a ‘x gen’ fighter it would have had to contend with decades of deep experience of opponents—nope, won’t do.

Turkey’s ‘tech’ is clearly infected with foreign parts and, more importantly, retrograde foreign thinking.

Iranian success is apparent all around us from Ukraine to Lebanon to Syria and Yemen. Drones, missiles, mosaic, and asymmetric warfare. Advanced, cost effective and without these useless toys.

you need proper, large and deterrence capable air force, when you get that your asymmetrical doctrine will have even more sense because "home front" will be more firm.
4.5 gen domestic fighter in hundreds distributed among allies like Yemen, Iraq and Syria would have much more impact then exposed various militias and would provide umbrella for more comprehensive and more favorable conditions for asymmetric warfare.

 

[muhammed45]

you need proper, large and deterrence capable air force, when you get that your asymmetrical doctrine will have even more sense because "home front" will be more firm.
4.5 gen domestic fighter in hundreds distributed among allies like Yemen, Iraq and Syria would have much more impact then exposed various militias and would provide umbrella for more comprehensive and more favorable conditions for asymmetric warfare.

We have to accept the bitter of reality bro. Israel will always air superiority thanks to American non stop support.

What fighter jet can we build that would he better than F35 and F22? Impossible mission because of decades of delay.

The asymmetric doctrine keeps high value fighter jets such as F14 or SU35 as the final air defense layer inside the country. In this doctrine, drones will protect Iranian naval assets plus the long range anti ship missiles. Not fighter bombers.

The only hope that we have in aviation sector to play that role that you mentioned, is the unmanned version of Qaher F-313. Which is still in development phase. No country in the world gives us engines and radars for fighter jets hence we are on our own. Takes time and effort

It will have air to air capability plus possibly small drones in its bay.

 

[mulj]

We have to accept the bitter of reality bro. Israel will always air superiority thanks to American non stop support.

What fighter jet can we build that would he better than F35 and F22? Impossible mission because of decades of delay.

The asymmetric doctrine keeps high value fighter jets such as F14 or SU35 as the final air defense layer inside the country. In this doctrine, drones will protect Iranian naval assets plus the long range anti ship missiles. Not fighter bombers.

The only hope that we have in aviation sector to play that role that you mentioned, is the unmanned version of Qaher F-313. Which is still in development phase. No country in the world gives us engines and radars for fighter jets hence we are on our own. Takes time and effort

It will have air to air capability plus possibly small drones in its bay.

i agree but with sufficient air force for example in syria in numbers of lets say couple of squadrons of capable air interceptors, their raiding missions would be much more difficult and daring, also it would provide easier AD networking, those fighters would give breathing space for establishing more dense and formidable air defense system.
su-35 equivalent could do the designated job which is suppressing easy SEAD and COIN missions for enemy.
but if mentioned path with unmanned air fighter is promising maybe you should focus and pursuit that on harder and faster pace.

 

[jauk]

Turkey would never have been able to build jets without foreign parts and Iran would have been further ahead than Turkey had it not been under sanctions or if it had the unrestricted oil sales to fuel the R+D required to build its own fighter. Basically what I'm saying is that's a silly comparison to make.

Turkey's access to this retrograde 'tech' is actually worked against them. Their systems are so 1980s-shock-n-awe-hollybollywood' and entirely worthless. Not sure who would buy these. South Korea is a better example of integration and viable systems although they too are investing in grandiose indigenous x-gen fighters (Japan too).

 

[tsunset]

Turkey's access to this retrograde 'tech' is actually worked against them. Their systems are so 1980s-shock-n-awe-hollybollywood' and entirely worthless. Not sure who would buy these. South Korea is a better example of integration and viable systems although they too are investing in grandiose indigenous x-gen fighters (Japan too).

This Korean and Japanese things, i bet you my **** that they will never ever saw the day, just fancy plans that oozes PL-01, same for their reported wonder weapon missiles

 

[Tehrani021]

It is not fair to speak about turkish aeronautical industry like this. None of us can tell Turkey has invented the airplane or achieve a milestone in miliary aircraft design. For sure they rely in foreign technology for designing their projects.

But you can be sure South Korea, Japan and other countries does the same. It is much more logical and cheap to buy or ask a license for a foreign engine that designing one from scratch.

If Iran can design and build a turbofan you can be sure it will be with Russian assistance, or the engine will lack trust power or same lifespan that another jet turbine builders.

Nobody doubt that Kowsar and Yassin have been a milestone and a good example of hardworking and resilience of iranian aeronautical industry. But Iran must be more ambitious. And that requires that point called foreign assistance for a modern turbofan; it can be russian or chinese, but Iran need helps at this point. Like everybody. Not only Turkey.

You say we can't speak about Turkey like this, then you proceed to agree with me that Turkey’s fighter is reliant on foreign parts. So I take it I can't speak about Turkish fighter "like this" but you can? Furthermore, we're talking about Turkish fighter, building a strawman about korean or Japanese fighter is pointless as the same would apply to them. To have the same expectations of Iran as these other nations is unfair and unrealistic. Iran has been ambitious enough considering the contraints it's working with. I don't think you fully understand these contraints.

You do realise that Russia and China largely play along with US sanctions despite all of these "agreements" and "willingness to cooperate", hence why they don't sell aircraft to Iran? Also Russia and China dont fully cooperate with each other and see each other as competitors in terms of military technology, let alone Iran. So any help Iran gets is very limited from these two nations. You need to be a little bit more in touch with the geopolitics of Iran.

 

[jauk]

you need proper, large and deterrence capable air force, when you get that your asymmetrical doctrine will have even more sense because "home front" will be more firm.
4.5 gen domestic fighter in hundreds distributed among allies like Yemen, Iraq and Syria would have much more impact then exposed various militias and would provide umbrella for more comprehensive and more favorable conditions for asymmetric warfare.

Well, if you were sitting in a room with stakeholders that carry the purse you better have a far better argument than that. Your opponent in the room (me) will argue:

"Why spend $100M on one piece of machinery that meets 80% of our requirements (...almost certainly far less than 80% but let's make it difficult for me) when I can provide drones and/or missiles at $25K/$50K/$250k/$500K each (that's about 400x-2000x) that meets 60% of our requirements (almost certainly more than 60% but let's make it difficult for me even further)?"

Additionally, you have to beat my numbers by FAR FAR more (akin to the 'hurdle' *1* ) to get funding. Simply matching or slightly exceeding the hurdle will get you nowhere.

You will not get funded.

This has almost certainly been the prevailing argument amongst Iranian military strategists and stakeholders which has resulted in what we see: No 'air force' which is correct and clear thinking.

QED.

*1*. hurdle: The internal cost of a project against just saving the cash for interest or against the cost of alternative demonstrably 'simpler' projects

 

[Zarathustra]

 

[Hack-Hook]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1760316342237020358

Despite Turkey’s fighter jet having substantial key foreign parts and assistance (engines, largest 3D titanium laser printer in world, etc) it really is disappointing after 25 years playing around with F-5 and the disaster propaganda project that was F-313 we are no where close to an actual domestic fighter jet line.

Even with foreign assistance, this is a big accomplishment to get a fighter jet to maiden flight so quickly. Turkey still has a long journey ahead, but so far they have hit key milestones in their Air Force with their UCAV fighter jet and now this 5th gen fighter.

@jauk @Hack-Hook

Air Force has been the biggest disappointment for Iranian armed services. From drones (non-IRGC) to munitions to fighter/trainer projects

we will get the shiny 20 years old Su-35 and everybody will be delighted and proud of our achievement in buying them

 

[Hack-Hook]

Regardless, the ‘Turkish’ fighter will be as effective as their Bayraghdars. Little to zero.

if its RCS be somewhere near Rafale then be assured it'll be far more effective than Bayraktar