Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[Piet]

Except that Iran has no "cheap" drone that can challenge Israeli or even arab forces in the air or deliver "precision guidance" while being "stealth".

The intentional murder of IRIAF has now provided IAF the opportunity to roam freely over Iraqi airspace as we saw 4 months back. They can come in unthreatened, launch lofted ALBMs which no HIMADS in current Iranian service can engage. Radar sites and layered AD will be taken out. The same bases which may house prized possessions like S-300PMU2, F-14A/AM, SU-35S, Bavar-373, Mehran, AESA track radar or OTHs are defenseless unless Iran develops efficient most THAAD, or just invest in an airforce that can least thwart the enemy not to come closer to Iranian border. This is just one theatre, what about the Persian Gulf which has roughly 800 x 4/4+ generation fighters in the hands of enemies of Iran. These fighters can deliver SOWs out of the range of Iranian IADS to deplete the IADS we are so proud of while we will be sitting and taking it and our generals will be vowing "revenge" through statements. 15 years ago someone would have laughed at the idea of Israel freely assassinating Iranian-backed group leaders, freely bombing Lebanon, Syria, flying over Iraq, conducting assassinations, sabotages inside Iran. That all happened so while we can sit here and laugh at US backed sheikhdoms for now, nobody knows what kind of future we will be having with them. This argument that we can't fight USAF/USN so we should also open our legs for Israeli and Arab airforces is funny at best.

Greetings

This is really a dark picture, one which I unfortunately have to weigh seriously.

With the F-14's, F-4's and MiG-29s on their literal last legs, the IRIAF liberally bears all of the hallmarks of a hostile takeover, such as that usually found on Wall Street.

Want to comment on your other posts separately, especially on the apparent disappearances of the -90B and Arash L-W BVR AAM's.

Also, something that has puzzled me for some time now is the exitance of the Oghab-44 underground air base 'Eagle 44'.

Concentrating any number of the valuable remaining combat a/c of the IRIAF in this way is bound to be a honeypot for numerous, numerous, aerial attacks. True, while the base itself may hold up, this does not necessarily hold true for the exit points (hidden or otherwise).

Piet





Piet

 

[Flotilla]

3) All the required ingredients are there, its just the will of the leadership to put in money and good managers (may be from IRGC) the same way they did for Aeropsace, naval etc sectors. Once we get going in combat aviation sector, IRIAF will become in combat aviation what IRGC's aerospace force is in missile power.

Probably that it is the key point.

Iran has not enough money to keep up expending in all military fields. So if your military budget it is just 1.500 million and Ballistic missile programs eats up 900 and IRGC projects eats some others 400... the rest it is negligible for other conventional armies (IRIN/IRIAF seems to be sacrified).

The awesome modernization of AH-1J cobras but few numbers of helicopters refurbished along with other controversial projects like Yassin AFT suggest that it is not a technological problem, seems to be a money issue shortage. Maybe I am wrong.

 

[jauk]

Except that Iran has no "cheap" drone that can challenge Israeli or even arab forces in the air or deliver "precision guidance" while being "stealth".

The intentional murder of IRIAF has now provided IAF the opportunity to roam freely over Iraqi airspace as we saw 4 months back. They can come in unthreatened, launch lofted ALBMs which no HIMADS in current Iranian service can engage. Radar sites and layered AD will be taken out. The same bases which may house prized possessions like S-300PMU2, F-14A/AM, SU-35S, Bavar-373, Mehran, AESA track radar or OTHs are defenseless unless Iran develops efficient most THAAD, or just invest in an airforce that can least thwart the enemy not to come closer to Iranian border. This is just one theatre, what about the Persian Gulf which has roughly 800 x 4/4+ generation fighters in the hands of enemies of Iran. These fighters can deliver SOWs out of the range of Iranian IADS to deplete the IADS we are so proud of while we will be sitting and taking it and our generals will be vowing "revenge" through statements. 15 years ago someone would have laughed at the idea of Israel freely assassinating Iranian-backed group leaders, freely bombing Lebanon, Syria, flying over Iraq, conducting assassinations, sabotages inside Iran. That all happened so while we can sit here and laugh at US backed sheikhdoms for now, nobody knows what kind of future we will be having with them. This argument that we can't fight USAF/USN so we should also open our legs for Israeli and Arab airforces is funny at best.

You’re mixing apples and oranges. Iran manifestly has cheap crowns that can drain enemy resources. Stealth is irrelevant.

 

[Emirzad]

Greetings

This is really a dark picture, one which I unfortunately have to weigh seriously.

With the F-14's, F-4's and MiG-29s on their literal last legs, the IRIAF liberally bears all of the hallmarks of a hostile takeover, such as that usually found on Wall Street.

Want to comment on your other posts separately, especially on the apparent disappearances of the -90B and Arash L-W BVR AAM's.

Also, something that has puzzled me for some time now is the exitance of the Oghab-44 underground air base 'Eagle 44'.

Concentrating any number of the valuable remaining combat a/c of the IRIAF in this way is bound to be a honeypot for numerous, numerous, aerial attacks. True, while the base itself may hold up, this does not necessarily hold true for the exit points (hidden or otherwise).

Piet





Piet

Iranian IADS is powerful and its getting better with time. So such deep penetration into Iranian airspace is not easy for such a precisional strike at opening the doors of these underground bases.

 

[Emirzad]

Probably that it is the key point.

Iran has not enough money to keep up expending in all military fields. So if your military budget it is just 1.500 million and Ballistic missile programs eats up 900 and IRGC projects eats some others 400... the rest it is negligible for other conventional armies (IRIN/IRIAF seems to be sacrified).

The awesome modernization of AH-1J cobras but few numbers of helicopters refurbished along with other controversial projects like Yassin AFT suggest that it is not a technological problem, seems to be a money issue shortage. Maybe I am wrong.

Its not about the money, the Iranian military budget can expand up to 20 billion USD for few years if the leadership wants. We saw the Iranian military operating at 3 active fronts simultaneously while the domestic military-industrial complex was also booming. The budget was increased. The problem is the allocation of money to IRIAF + getting rid of snake like sycophant commanders who lie, exaggerate, and run parallel projects of no actual meaning. If we go by pure capability, Iran as a nation can field out a 4+ generation air superiority fighter on its own.

- It can be a bit enlarged F-5E/Kowsar or Saeghe-I/II airframe (50+ feet) since HESA can churn out this design in bulk. It's low RCS is proven in battle. HESA already developed an FBW for it in Kowsar. This is the current known capability, maybe with right amount of investment in R&D, the RCS can be even further reduced to make it difficult for the enemy to track it from a distance.

- Leadership can get one LP assembly line of a Russian turbofan inside Iran. AI-222-25 Saljut (nonafterburning) has been discussed with Russians for Yasin. 2 x AI-222-25 with afterburners can provide a wet thrust of close to 20,000 lbs, on 12,000 dry thrust plane will probably be super cruising for CAPs with UCAVs. The engine by dimensions fits like a glove inside an F-5E/F in place of J-85II/Owj Turbojets.

- We know SAIRAN produces Bayenaat-II radar which Grifo-346's copy. Can track an F-16 at ~100 KM, can SAR a 1 m2 ground target. It has built-in ECM capability. With an AESA antenna, it can become invulnerable to jamming. ECM package, flight computers, weapons management etc can come from Kowsar's suite. HOTAS, HMD are no problem for SAIRAN and other companies, see heli upgrades for examples. Encrypted Datalinking with IADS, UCAVs is already known to be operating in Kowsar.

- We now have a mean Sidewinder inside Iran with a High Offbore Sight (HOBS) All aspect Imaging seeker "Azarakhsh", can be slaved to HMD and IRST for cues (See IRST of Khordad batteries). Meanwhile, the AIM-7M equivalent ARH BVR weapon can create a no-escape zone around the plane.

If leadership wants they can get this plane to guard Iranian airspace with SU-35S or Mig-29 (if fleet expands) and whatever future wingmen UCAV Qaher will become. But illiterate commanders want money for project Habibi on Mirages and Project Erfanian on F-7N.

Hiding behind self-boosting, self-praises, and covering your failures for internal consumption does not win wars and battles.

 

[Immortals]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1826277247289905272

Patarames calling a F-313 a landing gear demonstrator

 

[Kyussis]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1826277247289905272

Patarames calling a F-313 a landing gear demonstrator

The landing gear in the exibit is not the same landing gear on the F-313!

 

[Immortals]

The landing gear in the exibit is not the same landing gear on the F-313!

…..No one said it was.

Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit is it? He is saying the
engineering of building the landing gear demonstrator for the F-313 fake project allowed the team to now be able to build A320-class landing gears.

He never said the landing gear in the exhibit is the same as the F-313. He clearly states what it is.

 

[Kyussis]

…..No one said it was.

Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit is it? He is saying the
engineering of building the landing gear demonstrator for the F-313 fake project allowed the team to now be able to build A320-class landing gears.

He never said the landing gear in the exhibit is the same as the F-313. He clearly states what it is.

That is quite the silly take comming from someone like him. Iran has so many aircraft projects like the Azarakhsh/Saegheh/Kowsar Yasine and Simorgh to test landing gears!

 

[Flotilla]

- It can be a bit enlarged F-5E/Kowsar or Saeghe-I/II airframe (50+ feet) since HESA can churn out this design in bulk. It's low RCS is proven in battle. HESA already developed an FBW for it in Kowsar. This is the current known capability, maybe with right amount of investment in R&D, the RCS can be even further reduced to make it difficult for the enemy to track it from a distance.

It is too ambitious right now.
Just buying 48 Su35 as replacement of F14, 48 Mig-29M2/35 for replacement of F7/Mig29 and some F4 and after it just two squadrons of Yassin aircrafts, with EFIS avionics and integrating all excellent guided munitions Su22 have in their inventories.

What you are suggesting was already invented. It was a LWF called YF16/17 that eventually finished in F16 and F18.

Su35 and Mig29M2 or Mig35 will enhance quickly a real deterrence that right now IRIAF doesn´t have.

Even Kowsar or evolution seems to be a natural development plan for the IRIAF/IRGCAF... but something like you are suggesting needs a new (and more powerful) engines, needs a complete redesign of the airframe including wings and redone a bigger and more powerful radar capable of tracking farther and processing more signals in its core. Would take years. Many years. You need a interim solution.

 

[Emirzad]

It is too ambitious right now.
Just buying 48 Su35 as replacement of F14, 48 Mig-29M2/35 for replacement of F7/Mig29 and some F4 and after it just two squadrons of Yassin aircrafts, with EFIS avionics and integrating all excellent guided munitions Su22 have in their inventories.

Nowhere in my post I have said the local fighter program is a replacement for SU-35S or MIG-29. If you have followed me since the days of IMF/IDF, I am known to be the biggest supporter of IRIAF built around MIG-29M/M2/SMT/K(MIG-35). Some x 120 such fighters with IADS mean airspace is secured. The same goes for SU-35S because without F-14A/AM (supposedly retires soon) SU-35S with R-37 LR-BVR is the only defense Iran will have to thwart IAF from attacking Iranian sites from inside Iraqi airspace or maybe Persian gulf airspace in the future. I am not even in favor of retiring the F-14 because even if one airframe takes 10/12 million USD for an extensive overhaul + upgradation with radar, new BVR/WVR weapons, datalinks, etc then IRIAF can have 42 airframes to guard Iran periphery of IADS along with SU-35S and inner periphery will be the job of IADS, MIGs and Local fighter. RuAF has SU-35S, and SU-57 but did they retire MIG-31BM? Mind you a fully equipped and upgraded F-14AM is more capable than MIG-31BM. IRIAF just has no vision, corrupt commanders and decision-makers are eating the force like bacteria. Realistically speaking I see the F-14 fleet retiring and the local fighter program gone as well. By a miracle, they will get barely 2 squadrons of MIG-29 upgraded by Belarusian companies, forget anything meaningful about them. I see 24 x SU-35S coming but the rest of the IRIAF will be dusted.

What you are suggesting was already invented. It was a LWF called YF16/17 that eventually finished in F16 and F18.

Even Kowsar or evolution seems to be a natural development plan for the IRIAF/IRGCAF... but something like you are suggesting needs a new (and more powerful) engines, needs a complete redesign of the airframe including wings and redone a bigger and more powerful radar capable of tracking farther and processing more signals in its core. Would take years. Many years. You need a interim solution.

I am afraid you know very less about the Iranian aviation capabilities (not talking about the corruption here) because the Iranian aviation industry has already redesigned the F-5 airframe. Kowsar (100% locally built prototype 3-7400) is 6-8 inches longer, its interior structure is changed to house heavy avionics panels, a larger radar, and the flight is FBW-controlled. Saeghe (a failed test bed) before Kowsar was a massive airframe change with V tails. Its wings's interior was re-structured as can be seen when Omani AF chief visited the facility. Yasin which is an indigenous airframe is another F-5 derived airframe design but with changes offcourse. So yes the airframe has already been changed a decade+ ago. Taking it to 2-3 feet with further elongation to add more space for avionics/fuel etc is nothing extraordinary or beyond the reach of HESA. They can even add a dorsal spine for the avionics bay and conformal tanks for range enhancement.

Also SAIRAN produces a quite modern and powerful airborne radar, are we to believe that same company producing OTH, AESA, PESA radars etc in bulk for IADS and Navy currently can't produce an AESA antenna for Kowsar's current radar?

 

[Piet]

- Not sure what you are implying with F-14AM. I think the fleet is done considering the ratio of FMC airframes (~20)/number of available airframes (42 atleast).

>> Basically the same as you. Nothing can last forever. But prioritizing one or more weapon systems over another begs the obvious Q? Is this serving my country - or my pocket. No pun intended.

Maghsoud was supposed to be the ultimate ARH ECCM BVR for it with a thwarting range above 200+ KM but it vanished from exhibitions while Azarakhsh missile which was supposed to be a modern imaging All-aspect/HOBS WVR for F-14AM (like AIM-9X) is now a SAM.

>>How on earth (again?). You nix a state of the art BVR AAM that could at least have given you a fighting chance against enemies more numerous and modern. Its like nixing missiles such as Sayyad-4B or Mehran-2 and make as if nothing had happened.
Piet

 

[Piet]

-The engine by dimensions fits like a glove inside an F-5E/F in place of J-85II/Owj Turbojets.

Very good. This opens up a second line of attack re:-the availability of suitable engines.
So, an alternative to RD-33++ in more ways than one.

- We know SAIRAN produces Bayenaat-II radar which Grifo-346's copy. Can track an F-16 at ~100 KM, can SAR a 1 m2 ground target. It has built-in ECM capability. With an AESA antenna, it can become invulnerable to jamming. ECM package, flight computers, weapons management etc can come from Kowsar's suite. HOTAS, HMD are no problem for SAIRAN and other companies, see heli upgrades for examples. Encrypted Datalinking with IADS, UCAVs is already known to be operating in Kowsar.

Agree 100% with a Grifo-346 plus ASEA array = -E. Admittedly though I am partial to ASEA FCR's. Also, the more that assets spread the good stuff around via data-linking, the more robust the entire network and all of the participants, will be.

Meanwhile, the AIM-7M equivalent ARH BVR weapon can create a no-escape zone around the plane.

No argument here.

 

[Piet]

Iranian IADS is powerful and its getting better with time. So such deep penetration into Iranian airspace is not easy for such a precisional strike at opening the doors of these underground bases.

Something interesting is beginning to emerge to this end: - I hope that this is not against forum rules, but its the shortest way of getting the point across.

- US Air Force eyes missile defense for dispersed bases in China fight

US Air Force eyes missile defense for dispersed bases in China fight

The Air Force plans to spread out forces during a fight with China, and Gen. David Allvin wants to do more to defend dispersed bases from missile attacks.

www.defensenews.com

And:-

Swedish Air Force eyes more weapons, people to deliver ‘robust’ dispersed operations​

Swedish Air Force eyes more weapons, people to deliver 'robust' dispersed operations - Breaking Defense

Sweden’s focus on dispersed operations remains consistent with efforts to increase readiness amid Russia’s war in Ukraine, with freedom of maneuver seen as key to undermining an enemy’s plan of attack.

breakingdefense.com

If Oghab-44 is used as a suppository to guard against initial massive pre-emptive strikes against IAIAF assets, and thereafter dispersed to off-base ops centers, then this would make sense to me.

Also, the example of SAIRAN producing everything from OTH radar - PESA et al (and now surface wave radar) but seemingly cannot produce an ASEA for Kowsar's radar. It would be somewhat amusing if it was not so inconsistent with every-day reasoning.

Before I go:- You had also posted that ... Local AIM-7M equivalent "Arash-Light BVR' was shown twice ... .

I have the image posted to : - https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iriaf-news-and-discussions.358559/page-548 , but nada about the other one. Do you perhaps have a link ... .

Thanks

Piet

Nowhere in my post I have said the local fighter program is a replacement for SU-35S or MIG-29. If you have followed me since the days of IMF/IDF, I am known to be the biggest supporter of IRIAF built around MIG-29M/M2/SMT/K(MIG-35). Some x 120 such fighters with IADS mean airspace is secured. The same goes for SU-35S because without F-14A/AM (supposedly retires soon) SU-35S with R-37 LR-BVR is the only defense Iran will have to thwart IAF from attacking Iranian sites from inside Iraqi airspace or maybe Persian gulf airspace in the future. I am not even in favor of retiring the F-14 because even if one airframe takes 10/12 million USD for an extensive overhaul + upgradation with radar, new BVR/WVR weapons, datalinks, etc then IRIAF can have 42 airframes to guard Iran periphery of IADS along with SU-35S and inner periphery will be the job of IADS, MIGs and Local fighter. RuAF has SU-35S, and SU-57 but did they retire MIG-31BM? Mind you a fully equipped and upgraded F-14AM is more capable than MIG-31BM. IRIAF just has no vision, corrupt commanders and decision-makers are eating the force like bacteria. Realistically speaking I see the F-14 fleet retiring and the local fighter program gone as well. By a miracle, they will get barely 2 squadrons of MIG-29 upgraded by Belarusian companies, forget anything meaningful about them. I see 24 x SU-35S coming but the rest of the IRIAF will be dusted.



I am afraid you know very less about the Iranian aviation capabilities (not talking about the corruption here) because the Iranian aviation industry has already redesigned the F-5 airframe. Kowsar (100% locally built prototype 3-7400) is 6-8 inches longer, its interior structure is changed to house heavy avionics panels, a larger radar, and the flight is FBW-controlled. Saeghe (a failed test bed) before Kowsar was a massive airframe change with V tails. Its wings's interior was re-structured as can be seen when Omani AF chief visited the facility. Yasin which is an indigenous airframe is another F-5 derived airframe design but with changes offcourse. So yes the airframe has already been changed a decade+ ago. Taking it to 2-3 feet with further elongation to add more space for avionics/fuel etc is nothing extraordinary or beyond the reach of HESA. They can even add a dorsal spine for the avionics bay and conformal tanks for range enhancement.

Also SAIRAN produces a quite modern and powerful airborne radar, are we to believe that same company producing OTH, AESA, PESA radars etc in bulk for IADS and Navy currently can't produce an AESA antenna for Kowsar's current radar?

 

[mulj]

To much talk about simple matter, prompt remedy for lack of numbers and capabilities are russians and chinese, first one with licenced production other one with fast delivery, everything else is on long stick and draining water from stone.
Both will not happen due their position towards Iran considering it as junior partner at best and their own geopolitical concerns.