Iranian President Raisi and Foreign Minister Abdollahian die in helicopter crash in East Azerbaijan

[Tremain]

Also what value could Drone pick up on the mere entrances to a underground missile mountain base

It just got you to admit it photographed the right target.

That's "value" right there, Bubba.

 

[Immortals]

The reason why they chose Ayatollah Khamenei, who was a young person, was that Ayatollah Khomeini had said that he is a worthy person and deserves to be the leader.

Not true at all. Rafsanjani was supposed to be next Supreme Leader and he infamously power brokered Khamenei who didn’t even have the religious credentials to be a Supreme Leader based on the rules thus it was amended.

Ironically the factions agreed to it because they thought a weaker supreme leader would be most favorable to all factions and easily influenced/overwhelmed with the role. However, Khamenai shrewdly consolidated power and played the factions against each over time thus growing his influence while preventing any one faction (including his own) from gaining too much power and threatening the pillars of Republic and indirectly himself.

 

[Immortals]

It just got you to admit it photographed the right target.

Admit what? I’m addressing your claim it photographed sensitive sites. If the sites were sensitive the public airway lane wouldn’t fly past them, that airspace would be restricted instead. Any plane can fly that lane.

ATC controller would have had it flying at medium altitude during that flight. You don’t seem to understand how flying works, a flight plan is given and confirmed prior to entering airspace and an altitude is given to maintain at all times and the lanes to use. This prevents planes from colliding or getting too close. You don’t get to fly whichever route you want and change altitude whenever you want because your drone and not a 737.

Also Weather during the route was heavy cloud cover and even Turkish drone footage showed that it was above clouds for its flight and during part of its search. So image quality was constrained.

So again what information did it gleam to make your theory make sense? NATO/US has some of the most powerful spy satellites and likely photographed that site 10x over during clear skies.

Even at target location it had to ask to drop from 30,000 ft to 9,000 feet because visibility was so poor the imaging quality wasn’t good.

See here where it was flying at 30,000 ft over search site:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Ironically the commercial satellite pictures you posted are likely more clear than anything Turkey could have captured assuming it was even photographing the site from afar.

 

[Mehdipersian]

Admit what? I’m addressing your claim it photographed sensitive sites. If the sites were sensitive the public airway lane wouldn’t fly past them, that airspace would be restricted instead. Any plane can fly that lane.

ATC controller would have had it flying at medium altitude during that flight. Weather during the route was heavy cloud cover and even Turkish drone footage showed that it was above clouds for its flight and during part of its search.

So again what information did it gleam to make your theory make sense? NATO/US has some of the most powerful spy satellites and likely photographed that site 10x over during clear skies.

Even at target location it had to ask to drop from 30,000 ft to 9,000 feet because invisibility was so poor the imaging quality wasn’t good.

See here where it was flying at 30,000 ft:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Ironically the commercial satellite pictures you posted are likely more clear than anything Turkey could have captured assuming it was even photographing the site from afar.

At that time, the whole area was rainy and cloudy, and Akinji was moving above the clouds.

 

[Tremain]

If the sites were sensitive the public airway lane wouldn’t fly past them, that airspace would be restricted instead.

And as we have just seen, Iran has ZERO concept of security.

You don’t seem to understand how flying works

But the Turks sure understand how flying works. And how cameras work. And how literally anyone can defeat Iranian "security".

So again what information did it gleam to make your theory make sense?

I am not offering any theories. I am simply pointing out what happened.

And the way it got you all worked up, tells me more than whatever that random tweet did.

 

[Tremain]

Do you know what a thermobaric missile does? It needs to know what direction the cave entrances are facing.....

I am not an imaging analyst and I don't work for any spy agency. But even I know they appreciate images which join a chain of images, that over time tell the rate of expansion of any such site and guess at it's importance.

And no satellite.... NONE.... can capture images with the clarity and detail a drone can.

 

[Immortals]

Do you know what a thermobaric missile does?

Do you?

A thermobaric missile is primarily used to kill infantry by superheating the air and sucking out the oxygen, hence why it’s used in TOS-1 and 2 by Russian MLRS systems.

You wouldn’t use a thermobaric missile against those entrances. They are covered by air locked blast doors every couple hundred meters to prevent energy from traveling thru the corridor. If you bothered to educate yourself, Iran has published walk thrus on these entrances before.

It needs to know what direction the cave entrances are facing.....

The entrances are facing southeast towards Tabriz. Took me 1 min to find them on Google maps without having the coordinates.

You don’t need a drone to tell you how the Earth works (or compass for that matter).

I am not an imaging analyst and I don't work for any spy agency.

Thank you for that disclaimer, prior to this I thought you were Pakistan’s 007.

You give yourself too much credit, I didn’t even think you passed high school with some of the things you say.

But even I know they appreciate images which join a chain of images, that over time tell the rate of expansion of any such site and guess at it's importance.

You know what else can tell you the rate of expansion? A satellite….that flies overhead multiple times a day.

I am not an imaging analyst

And no satellite.... NONE.... can capture images with the clarity and detail a drone can.

First Nice contradiction.

The top US spy satellite’s cost up to $10B and you think that a $1M FLIR from Canada (used on Turkish drone) can outperform it?

Commercial satellites have reached 10 cm resolution, that image I showed you is ~10 cm that Trump leaked. And highly classified images are likely much much higher resolution than that.

So yes, a spy satellite can absolutely have a higher quality of image than drone.

Anyone can simply order this level detail today via commercial satellite providers:



Now imagine what NATO/US have via Space based assets.

 

[Flotilla]

Thanks to all the Pakistani, Turkish, Indian and other brothers that followed closely everything, this was a rare time where all neighbors were truly helping even if his fate was immediately death, the elections will be in less than 50 days, i personally have no idea of who is this interim president, but i hope someone better than all the previous president will be elected or that major changes are going to be applied such as removal of the president post/adding prime minister post, and finally security for all high ranked, i really hope having the president to die like that will make some people wake up and not let assets be at critical risk whether from accidents or foreign actors

Agreed. That shows that the Raesi's polítics about good neighborhood was working. Rest in Peace.

 

[HamidAgha]

So have no development, and remain a backward country, lol?

It is better for Iran to be like China or Japan economically than some backward country.

Being a slave country doesnt always guarantee foreward thinking and development. Other than a few military toys, Iran is lightyears ahead of Pakistan in pretty much every field. "LOL"

It is better for Iran to pursue what it believes in and what Allah has written for them, than to be some slave munafiq state. Something you don't get.

 

[HamidAgha]

The general state of the Iranian aviation industry as publicly reported over the years, make it highly likely maintenance some role. But sure, let’s wait for the investigation report. But if you were responsibly for the helicopters, today, perhaps you would be reviewing safety procedures with pilots and maintenance crew. A ground of the fleet for a short while, out of precaution, wouldn’t be unusual.

Iran might not have been able to buy the best and most modern Russian helicopters but could have redirected some of its current fleet of Mi-17, and been better able to surreptitiously been able to buy spares with little fanfare or notice. The Iran navy operates 45 Mi-17 alone.

Islamic Republic of Iran Navy Aviation - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Helicopter crash kills Raisi: Are sanctions behind Iran’s aviation crisis?

Sanctions have prevented Iran from procuring new aircraft or equipment, which have been linked to aviation accidents.

www.aljazeera.com

Im not going to discuss hypotheticals with you before an investigation. Your initial premise was that Iran can afford this so should automatically be able to buy these choppers and I poured cold water on that by showing how short sighted and one dimensional what you said was. I'm happy to end the discussion there.

 

[gambit]

I have no doubt, the experienced pilot knew it was a bad idea to attempt the flight in almost zero visibility. However, he probably didn't think he could say no without severe consequences. I hope the pilot and his crew don’t end up blamed for this tragedy by the authorities.

I learned to fly before the USAF. By the time I entered the USAF, I done night, solo-ed cross country, and instrument. Did not multi-engine.

Franklin D. Roosevelt: "A smooth sea never made a skilled sailor."

Same applies to flying. If all you* do is clear sky with %100 visibility, you will never make a good pilot. Is it possible for a licensed pilot to have only clear sky experience? Absolutely, one that do not want anything more than that certification and bragging points at the bar.

By the time you are selected to fly a VIP, you will have, or should have, experience in adverse flying conditions, including inclement weather. You will know how to respond to issues, minor up to in-flight emergency (IFE). The operative word is 'respond'. We cannot document every flight issues. It is impossible. So what you are trained for is how to use what knowledge and experience you have, from flight school all the way to current, on how to deal with various flight issues.

As an aircraft commander, you are essentially god for the mission. In Air Force One, if the aircraft commander deems it necessary, he can override the president's wants. He knows his career will end on landing, but for the moment, his top priority is the safety of the VIP and everyone else on board. That is why we select VIP aircraft commanders based on experience and certain personality traits, notably wisdom.

Note*: I say 'you' generically not personally.

 

[HamidAgha]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Which is why we can't rule out assassination at this point.

 

[HamidAgha]

I have no doubt, the experienced pilot knew it was a bad idea to attempt the flight in almost zero visibility. However, he probably didn't think he could say no without severe consequences. I hope the pilot and his crew don’t end up blamed for this tragedy by the authorities.

Im not buying this bad weather line, because the other two choppers were absolutely fine in the same conditions. If there is a cover-up, you better bet that the pilot and US sanctions will get blamed.

 

[Tornado]

Which is why we can't rule out assassination at this point.

possible avenue would be weather manipulation to create dense fog, the pilot would not have flied if there was bad weather, sudden fog could indicate manipulation, fog is probably the easiest weather manipulation, but thats just a guess.

 

[Tremain]

Iran is lightyears ahead of Pakistan in pretty much every field.

Let me check......

Yep... our people are not dropping out of the sky in ancient choppers and our nuclear scientists aren't getting shot up at traffic signals.