Over Dozen Army Casualties in Tirah

[PakFactor]

The sandhurst piece was another uninformed rant - so your heart may be in the right place but its raving and ranting without clarity.

Here too, the soldiers gave their lives regardless of intelligence failure and they deserve respect.

I have been critical of the military for a decade or more and took more flak than many here - but I maintain this, our jawans for all their ills(considering backgrounds) and our younger offc cadre(for all their faults) are the ones giving sacrifices and until the lot among them get corrupted on an eventuality of background and society - they should be fiercely cherished and defended.

You provide checks and balances and critiques - but be justified and very clear in the narrative.

I have a thousand stories and even proof on the haramipan of brass from major up.. but its not everyone and these poor souls may have lost their lives due to neglect due to the higher ups but they have no fault(generally) in this

On the topic itself - Innalillah

The Sandhurst piece also shows the underwater currents within Pakistani society, which have not really existed for the last 70+ years. The establishment will have to change its way of doing things, as eventually, things will blow out. But seeing from the COAS speech in Islamabad, one gets the feeling they will not learn and are still feeding the population incorrect information.

 

[Alter_Ego]

India has a state military, you just kill and target the enemy soldiers, they don't hide amongst the locals

This is massively different, you have a jahil local population that tends to keep its mouth shut, some sort of weird backwards tribal code

So unless you randomly pick up people in a massive trawler net, which then instigates the same jahil population, your stuck responding, IBOs, checkpoint

Every discussion is a large operation is met with opposition from multiple sides, so they don't get done

What you can do is remove the afghans from society
Punish the Afghan population and deny them citizens rights in Pakistan, so no work education, healthcare access etc as they are not from the country
Continue to have tough border security and make it continuously tougher

So for example, new regulations means all truckers etc must have valid passports

Then you carry on, you will have good days and bad but the fight against the enemy goes on

genuine question from someone who have no knowledge about Pakistan-Afghanistan geopolitics;

- What the endgame here? Is the plan to eventually merge Afghanistan with Pakistan? Why is the border so porous? Any good reasons why Pakistan elites seen to allow decades of terrorists attacks on Pakistani soil?

 

[Mirzali Khan]

So, shut the border off completely

The terrain is such that it can’t be shut off completely

 

[SaadH]

We still got millions of afghani in our country bro. Until they are fully expelled and never allowed back in, this shit won’t stop! They’ve been poisoning the border areas with their extreme tribal jahiliyat.

Attacks are being carried out by Pakistanis from the tribal belt. You don't have to show your xenophobia by being a Pakistani Tommy Robinson...

 

[CombatCorner]

ISPR now confirms that there was exchange of fire on three different locations.
Three Soldiers Martyred while Four Scumbags sent to hell.

 

[LeGenD]

They took less casualties because the dum.fcuk afghanis had to do local security

We don't have that advantage we can't let areas fester without state control, regardless of how remote they are

And once again, large operations have multiple opposition from various political parties

You can't pick out the afghanis because they are largely not too different to the local dangar jahils we call tribals

So one minute it's idiot walking down the street, next it's idiot with a AK47 trying to shoot at cops or something

And all your jets, drones, missiles are useless because you can't pick out who your supposed to be shooting at


All you can do is cause the Afghan more pain and damage then they can inflict on you
So we can make the lives of Afghans so tough, so difficult in Afghanistan and in Pakistan that they themselves change

A military force will be far more exposed when it is operating as a occupying force in a seemingly hostile region. Afghan National Army wasn't there in Afghanistan in 2001 to take charge of local security, it took charge of local security in 2014. But before this shift, US-led forces were directly involved in many battles with hostile groups in different provinces and used MRAPs to reduce losses in the face of numerous suicide attacks and also used aircraft, drones, and helicopters to defeat hostile groups in difficult terrain. Taliban groups lost thousands of fighters in these clashes. But Taliban groups shifted their focus on Afghan National Army after 2014 because it was easier to approach, infiltrate, and handle in clashes. However, many Afghans lost their lives in these clashes as well.

Pakistani forces do not have resources on the level of US-led forces. American surveillance system is comprehensive in particular, it helps execute complex network-centric operations in any part of a country. Pakistan does not have this luxury and troops near the Durand Line are vulnerable, therefore. I am not sure that Pakistan army can deploy MRAPs in large numbers near Durand Line, cost of fuel will go up exponentially. Drones might be best bet but highly sophisticated drones are needed to produce results in tribal areas and Pakistan has limited inventory of these machines.

Pakistan allowed US-led forces to operate in Afghanistan but the establishment was not willing to fight all Taliban groups. There was a lack of national consensus on how to reshape political landscape of Afghanistan. The US focused on hunting Al-Qaeda Network and reached an understanding with Taliban groups on this issue and left. Many in Pakistan were sympathetic to Taliban groups and did not realize that these groups will create problems for Pakistan as well because they desire tribal autonomy like in the past. Now Pakistan has no choice but to deal with this threat with its limited resources. The issue is of tribal autonomy.

In contrast, Iraqi state had zero tolerance policy for the ISIL movement when it emerged in 2013 and that is why it succeeded in defeating it. Iraqi state also needed American support for this mission but both stakeholders were on the same page on this matter (Operation Inherent Resolve). This is how a war is won, not with a lack of national consensus and reluctance to act when external support was available.

 

[AJKashmir1]

But the GHQ are whiskey drinkers and only promote Westernized GO. Idk where your rants are coming from.

And yet they still believed their cuck fantasies derived from mullahs. Just like some mullahs think molesting and beating children is fine while claiming a moral highground.

Ask anyone within the security analyst sphere and they'll tell you the cuck fetish for Afghans and delusional extremism within GHQ over the past few decades

 

[CPTPLANET]

And yet they still believed their cuck fantasies derived from mullahs. Just like some mullahs think molesting and beating children is fine while claiming a moral highground.

Ask anyone within the security analyst sphere and they'll tell you the cuck fetish for Afghans and delusional extremism within GHQ over the past few decades

Idk man why you get so personal about this. Pakistan is a failed artificial state. Right now your soldiers are dying in an occupation where you can’t even trust the local populace. You’re not going to win this war (as par the course for Pakistan).

What you’re advocating is more of the same, and what I advocate is fresh new thinking. Those GHq “cucks” have no love for anyone except their own pockets and who ever controls them sitting in a foreign capitol.

Probably the best thing to Pakistan, it breaking up will forced the population to cleanse their country once and for all

 

[maverick]

This type of propaganda tells me that Afghanistan is fully supporting the TTP and PTM. They even got the talibunny flag.

Dont fall for propaganda, both govt should realize that anyone can create content and use latest AI as well..

Both countries should work together to stop terrorism, unilateralism has never gotten any good to anyone in this region.

 

[Oscar]

The Sandhurst piece also shows the underwater currents within Pakistani society, which have not really existed for the last 70+ years. The establishment will have to change its way of doing things, as eventually, things will blow out. But seeing from the COAS speech in Islamabad, one gets the feeling they will not learn and are still feeding the population incorrect information.

Because institutionally they are incapable of learning much like a large percentage of the population.

 

[maverick]

How did the best organization in the workd ISI fail to decypher such a big attack ? its an intel failure, but wait why? oh because they are busy, and dont give a damn to folks at border at the moment.

Investigate, both govt should work together, an figure out the financier, supporter, abettors and handlers.

 

[Oscar]

A military force will be far more exposed when it is operating as a occupying force in a seemingly hostile region. Afghan National Army wasn't there in Afghanistan in 2001 to take charge of local security, it took charge of local security in 2014. But before this shift, US-led forces were directly involved in many battles with hostile groups in different provinces and used MRAPs to reduce losses in the face of numerous suicide attacks and also used aircraft, drones, and helicopters to defeat hostile groups in difficult terrain. Taliban groups lost thousands of fighters in these clashes. But Taliban groups shifted their focus on Afghan National Army after 2014 because it was easier to approach, infiltrate, and handle in clashes. However, many Afghans lost their lives in these clashes as well.

Pakistani forces do not have resources on the level of US-led forces. American surveillance system is comprehensive in particular, it helps execute complex network-centric operations in any part of a country. Pakistan does not have this luxury and troops near the Durand Line are vulnerable, therefore. I am not sure that Pakistan army can deploy MRAPs in large numbers near Durand Line, cost of fuel will go up exponentially. Drones might be best bet but highly sophisticated drones are needed to produce results in tribal areas and Pakistan has limited inventory of these machines.

Pakistan allowed US-led forces to operate in Afghanistan but the establishment was not willing to fight all Taliban groups. There was a lack of national consensus on how to reshape political landscape of Afghanistan. The US focused on hunting Al-Qaeda Network and reached an understanding with Taliban groups on this issue and left. Many in Pakistan were sympathetic to Taliban groups and did not realize that these groups will create problems for Pakistan as well because they desire tribal autonomy like in the past. Now Pakistan has no choice but to deal with this threat with its limited resources. The issue is of tribal autonomy.

In contrast, Iraqi state had zero tolerance policy for the ISIL movement when it emerged in 2013 and that is why it succeeded in defeating it. Iraqi state also needed American support for this mission but both stakeholders were on the same page on this matter (Operation Inherent Resolve). This is how a war is won, not with a lack of national consensus and reluctance to act when external support was available.

There is an odd narrative in ACdre Mansoor Shah’s book regarding him having an interaction with Zia’s nephew regarding the mullahs and the power he was giving them.

In the nephew’s words Zia was supposedly playing the Mullahs and wanted them to reach so far that they people would start hating them and then he would “sort them out” so they never bother Pakistan again ala. Ataturk.

No idea of the truth is this but perhaps that is what is needed in Pakistan - a 2013 Iraq controlled by extremists in a horrific state where a Mullah can declare you Kafir and take your wife or daughter just because he fancies her - Then they will have national consensus.

 

[nahtanbob]

I am not aware of the specifics of the Pakistani Army deployments in these regions.
Is the Pakistani Army interested in stopping the conflict ? even seeking a military solution
Is the Pakistani Army deploying enough troops for the job ? I suspect the answers are no to the above questions.

 

[Lulldapull]

Attacks are being carried out by Pakistanis from the tribal belt. You don't have to show your xenophobia by being a Pakistani Tommy Robinson...

Oh bhai. our KP used to be progressive and all the educated Pashto were liberal and many were even Marxist. Since this Afghani drama and mass contact with Afghani refugees, everybody now is a tribal anti state Jihadist. Rebellion against the state is now a mainstream movement. Have you had the pleasure of talking to PTM people? Have you seen interviews of Davar n company? and that openly racist fat dude? Do you know how mainstream it is now to talk against the state in KP today? They're all pro Afghanistan too.

 

[AJKashmir1]

Dont fall for propaganda, both govt should realize that anyone can create content and use latest AI as well..

Both countries should work together to stop terrorism, unilateralism has never gotten any good to anyone in this region.

What's the point of repeating what "should" happen when you know it will never happen because Afghans don't want that? Wake up and smell the coffee