PAF Future Acquisition Plans

[Yasser76]

US has already offered F 35. They also flew it to Aero India for display flights to build public support.

No, US have never offered IAF F-35 and in all MRCA Comps, including current one offer had been F-16/F-18/F-15. Lockheed do not even mention India as a potential customer. If even UAE and Saudi cannot get it, rest assured India will not.

 

[imranpak781]

What happened to project Azm
Why would you close that? Taking a step backwards

It has been Merged with KAAN program.

 

[MasterChief]

@Nilgiri @Faceless @suryakiran interesting - what would be a pivot by India(if any) if this turns out to be true?

F 35s

 

[Quwa]

So looks like a new PAF in 10 years looking like JF-17C, J-10C, F-16, J-35 and KAAN? Feels like far too many types. Maybe J-10C purchase was. a mistake or interim buy with limited numbers?

IMO the J-31/35 will probably replace the Peace Gate-I/II F-16s. Being from the 1980s, those F-16s are reaching their OEM-defined lifespans and (as there's no additional SLEP for them) will likely need to be retired by 2040. The PAF is likely sourcing the J-31 to replace the older F-16s from 2030 to 2040. It may also help supplant the remnant Mirage III/5s, especially ROSE variants.

We should also keep in mind that the older JF-17s (Block-Is) will also reach the end of their airframe lifecycles in the 2030s. Personally, I can see the PAF phasing those out with either Block-III-based aircraft, or additional J-10CEs.

IMO, the KAAN won't factor into PAF planning before 2040. Even if the Turks succeed in bringing the TR Motor engine online early, there's still additional testing that has to be done on the TR Motor-equipped KAAN. It's also bigger jet than even the J-31, so, if sought, it'd fill a different role; perhaps the PAF could wait for a KAAN variant that's optimized for strike?

 

[Goenitz]

Is your claim.

I say they can't.

@Maula Jutt
Things have been explained here a little. https://defence.pk/threads/probably-pakistans-biggest-need-charter-of-economy.706317/
@Mr X I can make the OP but what about the rest of the comments?

Anyway, all army subsidiaries are consumer-based. If Pakistanis are rich, then they can consume cement, corn, sugar, milk, etc. Army has very few technical/innovative skills to sell like training and some basic munitions.

Therefore, army cannot purchase, heck cannot sustain, anything in the long term unless Islamabad takes some loans. Imported oil and energy are our biggest issues.

 

[MastanKhan]

I thought PAF is avoiding to be fully reliant on China?

But if this is true then their entire fighter fleet will be Eastern.

Hi,

Why did you think that way---?

Here is china investing billions into making its aircraft to compete with the usaf---maybe not today---but definitely in the next 5 to 10 years---on a larger spectrum.

That makes it a win win situation for the Paf.

 

[MastanKhan]

IMO, the KAAN won't factor into PAF planning before 2040. Even if the Turks succeed in bringing the TR Motor engine online early, there's still additional testing that has to be done on the TR Motor-equipped KAAN. It's also bigger jet than even the J-31, so, if sought, it'd fill a different role; perhaps the PAF could wait for a KAAN variant that's optimized for strike?

Hi,

That is a very realistic time period for the KAAN aircraft.
There are NO SHORT CUTS---there is NO SHRINKING OF TIME---.

A power plant will take an X number of years to develop if everything goes well.

Same thing for the stealth design---and then the EW package---integration of weapons and EW package---pilot re-training to aesa equipped aircraft---long range missile launch doctrine of launch and escape---.

The Turks need to get an aesa equipped 4.5 gen aircraft now to be ready for the KAAN in the years to come---.

 

[hyperman]

India is not UAE/ Saudi Arabia. It's a Quad / Indo Pacific partner.

The Emiratis and Saudis each hold US bases with troops and have signed defense agreements that are quite intimate with regards to US security guarantees. Turkey is a NATO state with nuclear weapons sharing agreements and US Nuclear weapons deployed on its territory. Its infraction with the S-400 caused it to be removed from the S-400 program.

Somehow you think with refusal of US bases in India, refusal to sign CISMOA, a plethora of Russian radars and sensor system deployed, including the S-400. An SCO member on top, An intimate relationship with Russia, regarding defense cooperation, and even expansion of present cooperation, with Russian links to the Indian defense sector, that somehow you are going to be given F-35s? b/c of a glorified talk shop(thats literally what the QUAD is, its a "Security Dialogue")

Its a bit delusional to think that somehow the F-35 will be offered, when its restricted to Treaty allies and several other conditions.

you are confusing AUKUS with QUAD in terms of importance, QUAD is not on the same planet as AUKUS, over even the nuclear umbrella arrangements/relations with Japan and South Korea.

VEEE ARE QAAAD SAAAR. VEE ARE SPECIAL AND VEERY IMPORTANT. lmao, this is the same India SUPA POWA 2020 nonsense I used to hear.

 

[Signalian]

You literally didn't address the main point of the argument.

You do this every single time.

I said stop with petty stuff.

McDonnel Douglas.
Lockheed Martin.
Bayratkaar.
Boeing.

Pakistan should have such private companies which can also flourish the civil side of things, as everything significant is military owned.

 

[Signalian]

Their are two sides to our economy..
One which is documented...which constitutes not more then 30-35 % of our total eco. The one which contributes the majority of taxes.

Second which is the under ground eco. Our dark eco. Which is the norm in almost all our markets n trading hubs, industries, hotels etc....it is a cash based system with transactions in 100s of billions taking place every day.
The size of this eco. Sys none have been able to fathom n has dumb founded most.

N thats the thing that is keeping Pakistan going.

I remember the chief of imf saying that once Pak external debt hits 100 billion $ the country would become "financially insolvent".
Would have loved to see her face when Pak external debt crossed 120 mark n still going strong

Good point.

There is a massive lack of transparency.

 

[MastanKhan]

The Emiratis and Saudis each hold US bases with troops and have signed defense agreements that are quite intimate with regards to US security guarantees. Turkey is a NATO state with nuclear weapons sharing agreements and US Nuclear weapons deployed on its territory. Its infraction with the S-400 caused it to be removed from the S-400 program.

Somehow you think with refusal of US bases in India, refusal to sign CISMOA, a plethora of Russian radars and sensor system deployed, including the S-400. An SCO member on top, An intimate relationship with Russia, regarding defense cooperation, and even expansion of present cooperation, with Russian links to the Indian defense sector, that somehow you are going to be given F-35s? b/c of a glorified talk shop(thats literally what the QUAD is, its a "Security Dialogue")

Its a bit delusional to think that somehow the F-35 will be offered, when its restricted to Treaty allies and several other conditions.

you are confusing AUKUS with QUAD in terms of importance, QUAD is not on the same planet as AUKUS, over even the nuclear umbrella arrangements/relations with Japan and South Korea.

VEEE ARE QAAAD SAAAR. VEE ARE SPECIAL AND VEERY IMPORTANT. lmao

Hi,

If I understand your post correctly---then---FYI---India has already been offered the F-35. The americans almost begged them---.

The saudis---the emiratis will never get the F-35's---. No muslim country will get the F-35's---.

Saudia & Emirates will not be able to build a 5th gen aircraft---. The Indian can and they will---.

 

[hyperman]

Hi,

If I understand your post correctly---then---FYI---India has already been offered the F-35. The americans almost begged them---.

The saudis---the emiratis will never get the F-35's---. No muslim country will get the F-35's---.

Saudia & Emirates will not be able to build a 5th gen aircraft---. The Indian can and they will---.

I can't tell if this is satire or if this guys is serious. lol

The americans almost begged them---.

lol

 

[Sainthood 2.0]

@Maula Jutt
Things have been explained here a little. https://defence.pk/threads/probably-pakistans-biggest-need-charter-of-economy.706317/
@Mr X I can make the OP but what about the rest of the comments?

Anyway, all army subsidiaries are consumer-based. If Pakistanis are rich, then they can consume cement, corn, sugar, milk, etc. Army has very few technical/innovative skills to sell like training and some basic munitions.

Therefore, army cannot purchase, heck cannot sustain, anything in the long term unless Islamabad takes some loans. Imported oil and energy are our biggest issues.

No point in arguing with fauj-blank blank blank-s
They are too low IQ to understand how economies work (nor is this their job to understand )

None of their businesses produce anything of value that can be exported, its all just leaching off of Pakistani consumers by undermining their competition
come to think of it, if they don't even bring $, how are they paying for all this...

 

[hussain0216]

I have a similar feeling. J31/35 by 2026-28 and Kaan by 2035-38 depends upon F35 in Indian hands.



Actually, Not much happened.

KAAN will come either way,, KAAN is a larger plane then J-31, and once it starts maturing in the 2035-2040 time period it will be bought

 

[lightning f57]

I said stop with petty stuff.

McDonnel Douglas.
Lockheed Martin.
Bayratkaar.
Boeing.

Pakistan should have such private companies which can also flourish the civil side of things, as everything significant is military owned.

This is a valid point. The US in the past has provided loans, tax relief, R&D funding, direct contracts, export assistance to US defence firms for national interests and to achieve technological superiority. In this case the Pak armed forces seem to be in the best position to do this as no major private or independant Pak companies have the ability currently. For e.g SUPARCO, PAC, HIT, POF are all state owned enterprises.

What I wonder is whether there is hidden budget for strategic purposes which is not disclosed?