PAF Future Acquisition Plans

[RescueRanger]

I thought PAF is avoiding to be fully reliant on China?

But if this is true then their entire fighter fleet will be Eastern.

China hasn't failed Pakistan so far and certain purchases come with certain T-O-T's. Pakistan will ultimately do what makes sense to its overall strategy.

 

[FuturePAF]

View attachment 7088

This just says the guard of honor was presented in an active fashion.

 

[Faceless]

@Nilgiri @Faceless @suryakiran interesting - what would be a pivot by India(if any) if this turns out to be true?

Scenario 1 If PAF is rich enough to buy this before 2030 IAF will be running around like headless chickens for the 1st few years and then will Insist on Su 57 or F 35 (if we can get our hands on it somehow)

Scenario 2 if this happens post 2030 We will double down on AMCA (induction 2035) and there will be a lot of name calling as to whose fault is this that AMCA is so late.
IAF will point fingers at ADA & HAL, HAL will point fingers at GOI

Scenario 3 None of this will happen as PAF is in a big cash crunch and IAF will keep on lazing around

 

[Quwa]

Very ambitious, @Quwa would appreciate your insight here.

It's interesting. If what the CAS conveyed was understood correctly, I don't think the PAF will see its first FC-31s / J-35s until sometime in the 2030s. China is still developing the fighter.

 

[Vox Non Dei]

First let PAF buy a plane that is at best a prototype and then India will think what it needs to do or if it needs to do anything.

J-31 with a Chinese RD-93 engine is not impressing anyone.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

First let PAF buy a plane that is at best a prototype and then India will think what it needs to do or if it needs to do anything.

J-31 with a Chinese RD-93 engine is not impressing anyone.

J35 hasn't RD-93 anymore but WS-13

 

[Vox Non Dei]

J35 hasn't RD-93 anymore but WS-13

WS-13 is essentially RD-93 with Chinese metallurgy. As such it is not really a stealth engine. WS-19 is still to be proven. Either way neither of them are in same class as even Russian engines.

 

[Quwa]

WS-13 is essentially RD-93 with Chinese metallurgy. As such it is not really a stealth engine. WS-19 is still to be proven. Either way neither of them are in same class as even Russian engines.

What do the latest Chinese engines lack compared to their Russian counterparts?

 

[FuturePAF]

Almost same as F35 but with 2 medium class engine currently it has either RD-93 or WS-13 but in future will have WS-19 (F414 class)

Indeed currently the WS-13 variant planned for the J-35 is in the 9.5-10 ton range and expect to go to the 11-12 ton range, per one of the PLA watchers that follows developments closely.

Btw, Pakistan and the JF-17 also get a mention in the following video as potential operators of the WS-19 (10 ton version of the engine) and the implications that may have.

The following video came out about a year ago, and he put the time frame at the time as 3-5 years until the WS-19 (11-12 tons) is developed. That would mean between 2026-2028; or only 2-4 years from today’s time. Considering the breakthroughs in WS-15 development, this seems like a realistic time frame, IMHO.

The Following video has English subtitles.

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[Vox Non Dei]

What do the latest Chinese engines lack compared to their Russian counterparts?

Engine life for one thing. Chinese metallurgy is not really up there.

 

[FuturePAF]

Engine life for one thing. Chinese metallurgy is not really up there.

How will we know if they have improved? I assume If/when their commercial engines get exported, we will find out from independent analysts.

Home-grown engine for China’s C919 is in the works, but still years away

Several of the C919’s most advanced components still come from overseas, and an adviser to the passenger jet programme says this puts China in a difficult position.

amp.scmp.com

The CJ-1000A engine is expected to be ready by the end of the decade if things go according to schedule. So we might find out in 5-6 years.

China Moving Ahead With Widebody Engine | Aviation Week Network

The C919’s turbofan is due to enter service in 2030. AECC is not waiting to finish that job before beginning an engine for the CR929.

aviationweek.com

 

[Oscar]

Engine life for one thing. Chinese metallurgy is not really up there.

Ok, that is definitely well researched public knowledge - but what else?


You mentioned the word "Stealth Engine" - please qualify that. What is stealth regarding a mass of spinning blades and heat?
Considering the most popular NTCR techniques count engine blades.

 

[Quwa]

Engine life for one thing. Chinese metallurgy is not really up there.

Fair, but at this point, I think there'd be more confidence in China's ability to manufacture capable (albeit shorter-life) engines at scale compared to Russia. We're already seeing that edge in China's ability to design, develop, and manufacture stealth fighters, defence electronics, guided munitions, etc. So, yes, there might be a gap in some areas of their engines, but as a whole, their next-gen fighter stack is probably a credible solution, more so than Russia's.

 

[Vox Non Dei]

How will we know if they have improved? I assume If/when their commercial engines get exported, we will find out from independent analysts.

If they get import orders from countries in large numbers other than Pakistan. Especially ones who have option of buying Russian planes. Leaving Pakistan, no one is really interested in buying Chinese jet engines or jets in large numbers. Pakistan operates largest number of Chinese planes and in future Chinese jet engines too.

Look at Russia jets or engines and how many countries operate them.

 

[Khansaheeb]

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The next step after J35s will be J20s for PAF.