PAF Future Acquisition Plans

[hyperman]

Not a Chinese jet bruh, but co-developed.

Semantics. by that rationale technically F-35 isn't an American jet, since its "co-developed".

Learning from past mistakes is a good thing.

It wasn't a mistake, acquiring the JF-17 was the best decision Pakistan ever made. A 4th gen airframe light fighter replacement for all the older J-7s, at an unbeatable price point. A resounding success with several hundred units built and continuing to be built in addition to a growing export market, compared to the mess that is the Tejas program next door.

China was never going to acquire the JF-17, it didn't need it, maybe initially they might have wanted it, but China's economy grew at an astounding pace of 10% through several decades and it got rich, it did not have a budgetary restraint that would have required it to acquire cheap replacement fighters. So its just waiting out older fighters, and replacing them with far superior fighters. Like its literally replacing J-7 squadrons with J-20s at $100M a pop, b/c it can afford it.

 

[Oscar]

US won't sell F-35s to India for the same reason it won't sell to Turkey (a NATO country), India and Turkey both have S400s and Russia will request to test the stealth capabilities of the F-35s to make modifications and upgrades on the S400s and S500s.

Geo political compulsions change everything and no controls can be put in place.

Keep in mind, there is as much a case of the F-35 analyzing the S-400 as the other way around.

 

[corven]

The J-31 is a dual engine aircraft, so it's closer to the F-22 raptor, the F-35 is a single engine aircraft. The J-31 actually looks almost identical to the F-22 raptor, can china canot built a powerful engine like from the f35. Just an observation by me I hope I’m wrong on this and get corrected by someone.

It still takes time

 

[Ghseean]

Hi,

Yes they can. The US will bend the rules to contain china---but the real question is does india wants to become a lacky of the US just like pakistan---.

for the same reason they are in a tight spot now. the way their media is jumping exposing their overwrought after this announcement.

ofcourse, it is not an easy decision to go for F-35, interesting times ahead.

 

[Yasser76]

Geo political compulsions change everything and no controls can be put in place.

Keep in mind, there is as much a case of the F-35 analyzing the S-400 as the other way around.

If US did sell India F-35 they would then be under massive pressure to sell it to Saudis, UAE, Turks and even Egypt. F-35 is a no go for India.

 

[hyperman]

Geo political compulsions change everything and no controls can be put in place.

Keep in mind, there is as much a case of the F-35 analyzing the S-400 as the other way around.

The Russian military apparatus has deep connections with the Indian defense establishment. And there is rampant corruption in India. If Pakistani intelligence can manage to get someone as high up as the man in charge of the missile program at the DRDO to send them classified information for pics of Bobs and vegana. what kind of stuff do you think the Russians can get with KGB Svetlana trapping some Air Force general? lol, very unlikely that the F-35 goes to the Indian air force, might as well just send an F-35 to moscow directly with a bow wrapped around it as a gift.

 

[KingQamaR]

Not true.. both cases are different. USA will sell f35 to India if India sign required agreement. India will not buy f35 if Pakistan has 40 or so j35s ... So urgently... They will buy f35 when it is favourable to them. I think India is very interested in having locally produced 5th gen fighter either local design or imported ....

This US fighter does not come with technology transfer. Russia offered india in its 5th generation program fighter su57 they turned it down.

 

[Oscar]

If US did sell India F-35 they would then be under massive pressure to sell it to Saudis, UAE, Turks and even Egypt. F-35 is a no go for India.

Turks had it and let go.

UAE wanted their own tech and did not get it otherwise it was a go.

Saudi Arabia could potentially get it.

Egypt does not have the compelling geopolitical importance for the main fight the US is gearing for as India does.

 

[Quwa]

Turks had it and let go.

UAE wanted their own tech and did not get it otherwise it was a go.

Saudi Arabia could potentially get it.

Egypt does not have the compelling geopolitical importance for the main fight the US is gearing for as India does.

One other theory... as the US releases newer blocks of the F-35, some to potentially supplant older ones already in service, they may re-sell older F-35s to the 'wider market.' This approach would ensure a long-term production run and help the US industry leverage key markets.

 

[Oscar]

One other theory... as the US releases newer blocks of the F-35, some to potentially supplant older ones already in service, they may re-sell older F-35s to the 'wider market.' This approach would ensure a long-term production run and help the US industry leverage key markets.

Probably not relevant to the Indians - there is also a bit of negative perception about earlier blocks and their reliability.

 

[KingQamaR]

Turks had it and let go.

UAE wanted their own tech and did not get it otherwise it was a go.

Saudi Arabia could potentially get it.

Egypt does not have the compelling geopolitical importance for the main fight the US is gearing for as India does.

UAE doesn’t want F-35s because Washington put way to many limitations on them if they got them.

 

[hussain]

UAE doesn’t want F-35s because Washington put way to many limitations on them if they got them.

Lessons from Libya ?

 

[Oscar]

UAE doesn’t want F-35s because Washington put way to many limitations on them if they got them.

That’s what I said

 

[MastanKhan]

Turks had it and let go.

UAE wanted their own tech and did not get it otherwise it was a go.

Saudi Arabia could potentially get it.

Egypt does not have the compelling geopolitical importance for the main fight the US is gearing for as India does.

Hi,

I have not been able to comprehend as to why the Turks would go for the S-400's rather than the F-35.

Please shed some light on that.

 

[Oscar]

Hi,

I have not been able to comprehend as to why the Turks would go for the S-400's rather than the F-35.

Please shed some light on that.

It is a rather perplexing choice to make but it seems there was more so ego involved than in depth defense decisions .

few things come to mind -

• Erdogan wanted to project his stance on not bending over to the US vis a vis the “balanced” relationship with Russia.
• He has relationships with Turkish defense manufacturers who may have suggested that they could offer alternative products.
• The Russians saw this as a prestige sale and put a lot of pressure vis a vis other deals(not sure if this is a strong reason since Turkey is technically supplying weapons against Russia today)

What is interesting is that Turkish HIMADs were already in progress while the TFX was still struggling and is a MUCH more complex system than a Sam, the F-35 program has already provided valuable input to Turkey’s program and would not have undercut the TFX as such. If the intention was to use the learning from the F-35 - why not wait until a few landed in country while potentially delaying the S-400 procurement until then.

Perhaps there is a UAE like angle of them wanting Turkish systems which was denied and they saw less value to it.

What the S-400 procurement did do for the Turks is allow them to devise strategies to kill it and other succeeding systems using “disposable” assets like UCAVs. Lessons which they shared with allies.

Regardless, not a discussion to carry on in this thread.

It is more pertinent to see why the announcement was done for Pakistan on what is a system they have had exposure to since the past decade but in general have kept aloof focused on their local projects along with pushing for release of the J-20.

System integrations and other aspects aside - just like the F-16V draws on the F-35 for its tech - the J-10C has a lot of systems drawn from the J-20 as @Be dazzled rightly points out.