PAF Future Acquisition Plans

[MastanKhan]

It is a rather perplexing choice to make but it seems there was more so ego involved than in depth defense decisions .

few things come to mind -

• Erdogan wanted to project his stance on not bending over to the US vis a vis the “balanced” relationship with Russia.
• He has relationships with Turkish defense manufacturers who may have suggested that they could offer alternative products.
• The Russians saw this as a prestige sale and put a lot of pressure vis a vis other deals(not sure if this is a strong reason since Turkey is technically supplying weapons against Russia today)

What is interesting is that Turkish HIMADs were already in progress while the TFX was still struggling and is a MUCH more complex system than a Sam, the F-35 program has already provided valuable input to Turkey’s program and would not have undercut the TFX as such. If the intention was to use the learning from the F-35 - why not wait until a few landed in country while potentially delaying the S-400 procurement until then.

Perhaps there is a UAE like angle of them wanting Turkish systems which was denied and they saw less value to it.

What the S-400 procurement did do for the Turks is allow them to devise strategies to kill it and other succeeding systems using “disposable” assets like UCAVs. Lessons which they shared with allies.

Regardless, not a discussion to carry on in this thread.

It is more pertinent to see why the announcement was done for Pakistan on what is a system they have had exposure to since the past decade but in general have kept aloof focused on their local projects along with pushing for release of the J-20.

System integrations and other aspects aside - just like the F-16V draws on the F-35 for its tech - the J-10C has a lot of systems drawn from the J-20 as @Be dazzled rightly points out.

Hi,

Thank you for your time---. I am like quite a few others who thought that this was a blunder---.

His defence industry sold him a billl for goods that were not available---.

From the conversations that turkiye posters have on this forum---it looks like they think that manufacturing a power plant for the 5th gen aircraft is easy as an apple pie or manufacturing a 5th gen aircraft to compete in its class is easy as well.

For a successful fighter aircraft program---they should already had an engine close to being readied for the job---.

They already had the example of the JF17 engine issue in front of them---but I guess Paf or the Catic were not worth the consideration for them---.

You know that and I know that like many other---that the f-35 takes the game to a totally different level---an impossible task to compete against at any level---.

 

[Zarvan]

PAF CHECKMATES PAKISTAN'S ENEMIES16 January, 2024: PAF Checkmates Pakistan's Enemies while strategically outplaying adversaries under the visionary leadership of Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu. Pakistan Air Force has undertaken a transformative modernization initiative to counter evolving threats in the current geostrategic threat scenario, prioritizing the induction of modern systems through smart acquisitions and indigenization. Pakistan Air Force has adopted a comprehensive strategy to establish PAF as a potent force and to rebalance the power dynamics in the region. Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu, Pakistan Air Force has led the PAF on path to becoming a Next Generation Air Force with induction of niche technologies, state-of-the-art equipment and human resource trained on modern standards with contemporary architecture for Full Spectrum Cross Domain Multi Arena warfare readiness in the fields of Aviation, Space, Cyber, Artificial Intelligence and Information Technology to address the modern aerial warfare challenges. The acquisition of J-10C fighter jets, Unmanned Aerial Systems, modern electronic warfare platforms, force multipliers, state-of-the-art integrated air defence systems, air mobility platforms, HIMADS and hypersonic missile capabilities at an unprecedented pace has bolstered the PAF’s war fighting capabilities. A key milestone in this strategic transformation has been the acquisition of Fifth Generation Stealth fighter jets, the foundation of whose induction into the PAF has already been laid which will ensure an impregnable defence of the country. *PAF SPOKESPERSON*

 

[Vital]

Official confirmation of the retirement now. Goodbye ZDKs

 

[Reichmarshal]

It is a rather perplexing choice to make but it seems there was more so ego involved than in depth defense decisions .

few things come to mind -

• Erdogan wanted to project his stance on not bending over to the US vis a vis the “balanced” relationship with Russia.
• He has relationships with Turkish defense manufacturers who may have suggested that they could offer alternative products.
• The Russians saw this as a prestige sale and put a lot of pressure vis a vis other deals(not sure if this is a strong reason since Turkey is technically supplying weapons against Russia today)

What is interesting is that Turkish HIMADs were already in progress while the TFX was still struggling and is a MUCH more complex system than a Sam, the F-35 program has already provided valuable input to Turkey’s program and would not have undercut the TFX as such. If the intention was to use the learning from the F-35 - why not wait until a few landed in country while potentially delaying the S-400 procurement until then.

Perhaps there is a UAE like angle of them wanting Turkish systems which was denied and they saw less value to it.

What the S-400 procurement did do for the Turks is allow them to devise strategies to kill it and other succeeding systems using “disposable” assets like UCAVs. Lessons which they shared with allies.

Regardless, not a discussion to carry on in this thread.

It is more pertinent to see why the announcement was done for Pakistan on what is a system they have had exposure to since the past decade but in general have kept aloof focused on their local projects along with pushing for release of the J-20.

System integrations and other aspects aside - just like the F-16V draws on the F-35 for its tech - the J-10C has a lot of systems drawn from the J-20 as @Be dazzled rightly points out.

The TUAF were delived either 1 or 2 F-35....I am sure they have gained valuable insight from the ac

 

[Waterboy]

All i would say is sidhu sab has literally changed the entire airforce. Man singlehandedly inducted so many goodies man. This is where my taxpayer monezzz should be spent. Beautiful toysss.
All corruption claims against are horseshit.

 

[Reichmarshal]

PAF CHECKMATES PAKISTAN'S ENEMIES16 January, 2024: PAF Checkmates Pakistan's Enemies while strategically outplaying adversaries under the visionary leadership of Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu. Pakistan Air Force has undertaken a transformative modernization initiative to counter evolving threats in the current geostrategic threat scenario, prioritizing the induction of modern systems through smart acquisitions and indigenization. Pakistan Air Force has adopted a comprehensive strategy to establish PAF as a potent force and to rebalance the power dynamics in the region. Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu, Pakistan Air Force has led the PAF on path to becoming a Next Generation Air Force with induction of niche technologies, state-of-the-art equipment and human resource trained on modern standards with contemporary architecture for Full Spectrum Cross Domain Multi Arena warfare readiness in the fields of Aviation, Space, Cyber, Artificial Intelligence and Information Technology to address the modern aerial warfare challenges. The acquisition of J-10C fighter jets, Unmanned Aerial Systems, modern electronic warfare platforms, force multipliers, state-of-the-art integrated air defence systems, air mobility platforms, HIMADS and hypersonic missile capabilities at an unprecedented pace has bolstered the PAF’s war fighting capabilities. A key milestone in this strategic transformation has been the acquisition of Fifth Generation Stealth fighter jets, the foundation of whose induction into the PAF has already been laid which will ensure an impregnable defence of the country. *PAF SPOKESPERSON*

All the above were initiatives taken by sadhus predecessor n he had zero to very little in put in them...his job was to bring all the systems on line n integrate them....now how well or badly he has done that we will see in the comming months n years.

Wasay sidhu sb is trying to take the credit of some one else, n on the back of it all, according to the grapevine he making the rounds for an extension......hence we see hafiz sb in PAF news

 

[Bilal]

ZDK, Mirage, F-7 and CN235 legacy and on the way out.

Confirmation of VERA E, Hisar 1 SAM, Airborne standoff jammer, HQ-16FE, high energy laser, CWIS, Y-8E, ASAT(offensive space capability)?. Still in the first couple of minutes and digesting more.



@farooqbhai @HRK

 

[GriffinsRule]

Semantics. by that rationale technically F-35 isn't an American jet, since its "co-developed".



It wasn't a mistake, acquiring the JF-17 was the best decision Pakistan ever made. A 4th gen airframe light fighter replacement for all the older J-7s, at an unbeatable price point. A resounding success with several hundred units built and continuing to be built in addition to a growing export market, compared to the mess that is the Tejas program next door.

China was never going to acquire the JF-17, it didn't need it, maybe initially they might have wanted it, but China's economy grew at an astounding pace of 10% through several decades and it got rich, it did not have a budgetary restraint that would have required it to acquire cheap replacement fighters. So its just waiting out older fighters, and replacing them with far superior fighters. Like its literally replacing J-7 squadrons with J-20s at $100M a pop, b/c it can afford it.

Funny. Would you consider EF Typhoon a German, British or an Italian jet?

Anyways, its one opinion vs another. Will see how it pans out sooner or later.

 

[GriffinsRule]

ZDK, Mirage, F-7 and CN235 legacy and on the way out.

Confirmation of VERA E, Hisar SAM, Airborne standoff jammer, HQ-16FE, ASAT?. Still in the first couple of minutes and digesting more.

@farooqbhai

CN235 are very new as compared to C-130s. Does not make any sense to retire them. In fact should acquire more CN295s if anything.

 

[Waterboy]

Can someone breakdown what each system is?

 

[SD 10]

ZDK, Mirage, F-7 and CN235 legacy and on the way out.

Confirmation of VERA E, Hisar SAM, Airborne standoff jammer, HQ-16FE, high energy laser, ASAT?. Still in the first couple of minutes and digesting more.
View attachment 11810
@farooqbhai @HRK

kindly do share some insight on these systems for a layman like me!

 

[MS Sandhu]

hypersonic missile capabilities

I think by Hypersonic,they are referring to CM-400AKG missile.

 

[Bilal]

kindly do share some insight on these systems for a layman like me!

VERA E passive ESM locator for aircrafts through emissions, Hisar 1 short range Turkish SAM, HEL = high energy laser most likely for counter drone, EADS is stand-off land based jammers from China, CIWS is for terminal defence of high value assets including layering of long ranges SAM as last ditch against leakers, HQ-16FE is a 160Km ranged version of old HQ-16 SAM, ASOJ is air-borne stand-off jammer need to confirm if it will be a new platform of Falcon D20 is being referred, MIGAES don’t know, HPM is high powered microwave.

Of course also shown is HQ-9BE (265 Km range) SAM.

Also it seems the induction of J31 is not going to be much of a wait now.

@Waterboy

 

[Bilal]

I think by Hypersonic,they are referring to CM-400AKG missile.

Yes.

 

[Bilal]

CN235 are very new as compared to C-130s. Does not make any sense to retire them. In fact should acquire more CN295s if anything.

Just 4 were acquired. I think they are consolidating.